Cats on the Moon

[Rotted_Corpse]

Originally Posted by Stormhowl [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The difference between EC Tunnel and the Bazaar, even if you account for the forums:

The Bazaar requires 0 player interaction, there's no trading, bartering, or haggling. Just set prices and go to bed / work.

At least EC and the forums require people to interact and talk, and there's some flexibility in how people want to sell their stuff (e.g., it's pretty common for people to ask for something like "100pp or Bard gear" when selling something) and when someone undercuts you, or if there's multiple people selling the same thing, you can respond immediately to raise interest in your wares rather than competing with a bunch of statues with AFK tags next to their names.

Don't know about you or others but I bartered a TON in the bazaar still. And the loss of items that are now vendored instead of sold in the tunnel is many.

[SpartanEQ]

Originally Posted by Stormhowl [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cats on the Moon was the beginning of the end; that much is obvious from step one, when the expansion was named "Shadows of Luclin" (SoL = Shit outta Luck).

AAs, the Bazaar, The Nexus, and the updated graphics all killed the game. Maybe many of us were too young for it to have realized it at the time, but looking back I think many of us can see that this was the expansion, not PoP, that killed the game, because it killed the community by reducing the reliance on Druids/Wizards for ports and eliminated the need to interact with people to trade. Things like AAs, which added never ending progression at 60 and created a schism between fresh 60s and veterans, and the updated graphics engine which forced many people to upgrade their comps when previously there was not a need for such a thing, only added insult to injury.

Even if everything was left as is; new zones with one or two connecting points (e.g., only allowing travel to Luclin via the Dreadlands spires where the Combine originally left from), the graphics engine was left alone, AAs weren't added, Shadow Haven wasn't some "one stop shop" for all your basic needs, and the Bazaar was absolutely obliterated from all memory, I still think Luclin was an absurd expansion. How many of us can actually pronounce the names of many of the higher end monsters? How many felt this diverged from both lore (the combine empire was supposed to be long gone, was it not?) and common fantasy archetypes?

Game would've been fine if we expanded some of Odus, Antonica, and Faydwer (look at a Kunark-era world map; notice a lot of places that were never in the game until like the 12th expansion?) and if they added Kerras as a playable race starting on the island west of Toxxulia.

There, I discussed. :P

I agree with pretty much everything here. For me personally, EQ <i>completely</i> died when LDoN came out, but yeah, just up through Velious is enough unless only some of the things mentioned above can be implemented (no Bazaar or porting stones, etc.).

I loved Luclin when it came out, but looking back on it I realize that it was just the beginning of a big flame-out. It was relatively short-term satisfaction.

I don't know that the population on the P99 server is large enough for that much expansion anyway. Some guilds would be happy about new raiding spots, but there sure would be a bunch of abandoned zones out there.

A lot of MMOs that followed EQ borrowed from stuff implemented post-Luclin, and it's a big reason why I play here and not there.

[Appaullo]

Maybe its just a nostalgia thing for me, but I did love Luclin. I also really enjoyed PoP. I'm not saying this server should implement them. Its just that for me a lot of my fondest gaming memories came from EQ. From about a month or two after EQ's launch to Omens of War (thats when my interest began to wane) I have to smile happily at the memories. Its why I'm here on this server today.

Although I dont get to play as much as I did a few months ago, I still really enjoy the time I spend here. I miss most of my old chums, but hey, what can you do?

Appaullo

[Doors]

Not to mention Luclin was the beginning of the end of twinking. I enjoyed twinking on this game more than I enjoyed the end game. Velious is the golden age of twinking, as the droppable shit from Velious areas was sick beyond belief for low level toons.

[Rotted_Corpse]

Originally Posted by Doors [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not to mention Luclin was the beginning of the end of twinking. I enjoyed twinking on this game more than I enjoyed the end game. Velious is the golden age of twinking, as the droppable shit from Velious areas was sick beyond belief for low level toons.

There were still lots of Items in luclin you could twink with.

[mwatt]

Originally Posted by Stormhowl [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cats on the Moon was the beginning of the end; that much is obvious from step one, when the expansion was named "Shadows of Luclin" (SoL = Shit outta Luck).

AAs, the Bazaar, The Nexus, and the updated graphics all killed the game. Maybe many of us were too young for it to have realized it at the time, but looking back I think many of us can see that this was the expansion, not PoP, that killed the game, because it killed the community by reducing the reliance on Druids/Wizards for ports and eliminated the need to interact with people to trade. Things like AAs, which added never ending progression at 60 and created a schism between fresh 60s and veterans, and the updated graphics engine which forced many people to upgrade their comps when previously there was not a need for such a thing, only added insult to injury.

Even if everything was left as is; new zones with one or two connecting points (e.g., only allowing travel to Luclin via the Dreadlands spires where the Combine originally left from), the graphics engine was left alone, AAs weren't added, Shadow Haven wasn't some "one stop shop" for all your basic needs, and the Bazaar was absolutely obliterated from all memory, I still think Luclin was an absurd expansion. How many of us can actually pronounce the names of many of the higher end monsters? How many felt this diverged from both lore (the combine empire was supposed to be long gone, was it not?) and common fantasy archetypes?

Game would've been fine if we expanded some of Odus, Antonica, and Faydwer (look at a Kunark-era world map; notice a lot of places that were never in the game until like the 12th expansion?) and if they added Kerras as a playable race starting on the island west of Toxxulia.

There, I discussed. :P

I don't think it was AAs, the Bazaar, the Nexus and least of all, the updated graphics that killed the game. I will agree that Bazaar and Nexus contributed towards lessening the need for social interraction, which granted, is important, but it wasn't the death knell IMO. I will also agree that the advent of AAs, though in many respects a very positive thing, did somewhat contribute to creating a schism in the player base, which is an important point (see below).

Competition from other games and schism in the player base was the tag team that brought the game to it's knees IMO. However, I think the schism between Keyed vs Non-keyed, heavy raiders vs. light or non raiders, was an even worse schism than the one mentioned above. What ended up happening is that casuals - even avid playing casuals (i.e. light or non-raiding types) had to pay for content they would never see, and do without gear they would never get. Because the heavy raiders had such good gear, successive new expansions got more and more difficult for the "casual" type player.

Since EQ2 and WoW both were completing for the same player base, and since SOE was pissing off at least half their remaining dedicated EQ1 players because of the schism, EQ1 took heavy hits.

Having said all that, "Cats on the Moon" was certainly anti-thematic and troubling to many of the old vets at the time. But we played on, most of us. To me, "Cats on the Moon" is more of a symptom than a cause of the havoc that SOE wrought in EQ1. At best it is cluelessly egregious, simply ignoring the fantasy theme. At worst, it showed just how willing SOE was to thumb their collective noses at the very foundations of the game. I think it was a bit of both. A combination of simple stupidity and hubris that ended up being repeated in many ways as the years wore on.

They truly "ruined their own lands".

[fuark]

Originally Posted by Stormhowl [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cats on the Moon was the beginning of the end; that much is obvious from step one, when the expansion was named "Shadows of Luclin" (SoL = Shit outta Luck).

AAs, the Bazaar, The Nexus, and the updated graphics all killed the game. Maybe many of us were too young for it to have realized it at the time, but looking back I think many of us can see that this was the expansion, not PoP, that killed the game, because it killed the community by reducing the reliance on Druids/Wizards for ports and eliminated the need to interact with people to trade. Things like AAs, which added never ending progression at 60 and created a schism between fresh 60s and veterans, and the updated graphics engine which forced many people to upgrade their comps when previously there was not a need for such a thing, only added insult to injury.

Even if everything was left as is; new zones with one or two connecting points (e.g., only allowing travel to Luclin via the Dreadlands spires where the Combine originally left from), the graphics engine was left alone, AAs weren't added, Shadow Haven wasn't some "one stop shop" for all your basic needs, and the Bazaar was absolutely obliterated from all memory, I still think Luclin was an absurd expansion. How many of us can actually pronounce the names of many of the higher end monsters? How many felt this diverged from both lore (the combine empire was supposed to be long gone, was it not?) and common fantasy archetypes?

Game would've been fine if we expanded some of Odus, Antonica, and Faydwer (look at a Kunark-era world map; notice a lot of places that were never in the game until like the 12th expansion?) and if they added Kerras as a playable race starting on the island west of Toxxulia.

There, I discussed. :P

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Hasbinbad]

Luclin was horrible. Bazaar was horrible. Nexus was horrible. Graphics were horrible. Cats on the moon were horrible. The style was horrible. They should have just made a new game.

AA's were good. They allowed players to advance their capabilities without having the level limit be at least 100.

PoP was good, but because Luclin was already out, Everquest was horrible.

If I had a genie in a bottle, and was so stupid as to use a wish on a video game, I would turn back the clock, skip Luclin entirely, and add AA's in PoP. That would have been a brilliant 4th expansion for Everquest.

[Muligan21]

Luclin was disastrous. Yes, I feel the bazaar took away player interaction and the moon was a huge disconnect from Norrath.

In my opinion they should have went classic > kunark > velious > PoP (minus books) and just stopped there. It always seems greener on the other side but if you began with classic and went through it all. Luclin seemed like a joke or an acid trip. You spent forever farming little blue, brain-headed aliens and attempt to get VT keys. Just to go into VT were things were named xjsjflksjdlkf xdsfsdf with 8 billion hit points. It almost appeared the SoE put not thought or time into developing the expansion into making it a part of the existing game.

Of course, this is all in the eye of the beholder, my opinion. Classic EQ was really great. I've played a lot of MMO's at the top level. Taking a break from Rift and finally trying this was great for me. Throughout most of EQ2, WoW, WAR, AoC, FFXI, and now Rift, I hardly remember adding anyone to my friends lists or trying to remember the better people in their respective classes. Within the first weeks of playing P99, I have already began developing a list of people, remembering names, and thanking numerous people for their generosity (buffs, gear, etc.) That's what EQ creates. The further you get into the expansion the more distant that becomes. Some expansions were better than others, i'm not saying all of them were bad. Just like someone had stated earlier, SoL was the beginning of the end. Even some of the better expansion seemed tainted due to SoL.

Project 1999 needs to leave itself where it is for awhile. There is so much to do in Kunark. If people begin growing tired... there are plans for Velious. Then there will be TONS of stuff to do... faction, ToV/NToV, Dain, Sleeper, WW, DN, etc.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by Tewaz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know why, but today I was overcome by an intense desire to play cats on the moon. New server reroll, lets hit it to the moon!




Discuss.

*grabs popcorn* A troll thread! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
We needed another thread full of trolls, yes. Ok, troll on, trolls. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]