This is Dumb

[patrick210]

IV had no issues with agro, yall prolly not turning taunt off pet.

[Cezar]

It’s not an issue about turning pet taunt off or on, we were king of aggro and now we fight vs a lvl 35 pet? We been nerfed hard with no reason. I am shocked that no one giving a sh*it about it.

At 59 was in a group with a lvl 51 bard slowing and I had no way to get mobs on me, still worth to play sk? Hell no, but I think if they want to change our class they should to it better and turn us into paladins or warrior, so we can continue playing. Stick with SK at this point is senseless.

[Octavian]

Originally Posted by Cezar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It’s not an issue about turning pet taunt off or on, we were king of aggro and now we fight vs a lvl 35 pet? We been nerfed hard with no reason. I am shocked that no one giving a sh*it about it.

At 59 was in a group with a lvl 51 bard slowing and I had no way to get mobs on me, still worth to play sk? Hell no, but I think if they want to change our class they should to it better and turn us into paladins or warrior, so we can continue playing. Stick with SK at this point is senseless.

Yeah, this is definitely SK-breaking. I heard they nerfed DC aggro, but I can't pull aggro with other spells either. Was trying to tank Narandi last night and couldn't keep aggro off raid at all. Was spamming DC and Shadow Vortex back to back. Pulled aggro occasionally for a few seconds, then it was gone. This was probably more to do with taunt than the spells though.

It seems SK's are just really, really bad dps now. Kinda killin my desire to play. Crazy they'd do something to make the game so much less enjoyable for us when there's already so few players. And when the only evidence I've seen of a nerf from live had no real metrics and seemed to come post-velious.

Classic bugs are classic. Even if DC was broken during velious, it should stay that way because that was the game. There's so much "fixing" going on and it seems they unfairly cherry pick what "should" or "shouldn't" have been classic, rather than just emulating what WAS classic, as I thought was the mission here.

RIP SK class. Had a good run.

[BenDerisgreat]

"Rogean: Bards are now capped at 140 aggro per song/spell/proc in all circumstances."

Bard aggro is completely borked. I can sing single target snare on a mob 8x and instantly lose aggro when sending in a charmed pet. Same thing with other songs and stun totems. Great for soloing but terrible for everything else. No more landing an aoe snare and kiting away some adds that are tearing your group/raid apart.

At the very least, aggro clickies should work the same as for other classes.

[FatMice]

I for one really hope they roll back these agro changes.
But I am not hopeful. It's not often we see rollbacks from these sort of updates.

[Octavian]

Tested out SK aggro with a friendly group of lowbies in Highkeep.

Me: lvl 60 SK
Them: lvl 20s to low-30s

I tested Disease Cloud, Shadow Vortex, and Shroud of Hate (our former most powerful aggro spells) on both incoming mobs and mobs which had been locked down by the group until sub-90% hp, thinking incoming aggro gank would be a sure thing and the sub-90% mobs would be the real test.

NOPE.

Couldn't even pull aggro on incoming mobs BEFORE they reached the camp.

To reiterate... Level 60 SK spamming DC, SV, and SoH cannot pull aggro from non-SK players OR pets less than HALF my level on mobs which haven't even made it to camp yet.

Obviously we don't need to go further on this. SK's are completely broken and useless now. Our aggro is non-existent. Okay... so let's talk about classic vs. non-classic.

I read the evidence of the DC aggro nerf. It was a post-Velious nerf and Luclin introduced the "Terror" line of spells to make sure that SK's were still the aggro gods.

So where is our DC replacement then? EQ live always very clearly intended on knights being able to snap aggro, with SK's being superior to Paladins in this department. This stayed true throughout the ENTIRE live timeline, through present day. There has never been another class which can out-aggro an SK. It NEVER. HAPPENED. ON. LIVE.

When they nerfed DC, it broke, leading to other unintended consequences (irrelevant to aggro), and they introduced the terror line to make up for it. SK's never lost their status as the top hate producers. Yet here we are on P99, unable to snap aggro from players or pets half our level...

Since we're not going into Luclin, where the terror line exists, this patch needs to be completely undone. Not fixed again, not tweaked, just completely rolled back. It goes against the entire timeline of EQ live to nerf SK aggro without a replacement spell. Please roll back this aggro patch. The game was working fine. And the nerfs which happened on live were also a mistake which was completely remedied in Luclin. We don't have that remedy to look forward to, so leaving aggro in a broken state will only ruin P99 for many players, especially SK's.

[Allishia]

Pretty sure its based off mobs HP. The agro gets better on higher HP mobs...but ya I was going oom trying to keep mobs on my 47 so in stables.

Disease cloud does nothing, I just used the ac tap cause was less mana than atk tap. It works ok but was still having to put 2-3 cast on every mob to hold it + dpsing with rocksmasher aary 2hb.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Allishia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pretty sure its based off mobs HP. The agro gets better on higher HP mobs...but ya I was going oom trying to keep mobs on my 47 so in stables.

Disease cloud does nothing, I just used the ac tap cause was less mana than atk tap. It works ok but was still having to put 2-3 cast on every mob to hold it + dpsing with rocksmasher aary 2hb.

I think the issue is the scale for mob hp is broken.

IIRC max aggro should be achieved on mobs with hp in the ball park of the higher level DL giants.

I wouldn't be surprised if the implementation here doesn't achieve max aggro until the mobs have 10s of thousands of hp instead.

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The notion that shadow knights should be expected to struggle with aggro until level 50+ due to HP scaling is absurd and nothing like the original game was.

Original game vast majority of people were using like 6/27 weapons til pas their teens. Of course it was easier for low level SKs to keep aggro against this instead of rogues backstabbing with 13 dmg weapons.

Originally Posted by Octavian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Others have already posted enormous chains of old zam comments about DC being primary aggro and generating massive hate during the Velious era.

The comments said things like it needed to be repeatedly cast. Obviously the current implementation seems to have underboiled the egg, but the previous was equally wrong.

2 DCs and MAYBE a shadow and you were keeping aggro an entire fight versus very twinked out melees. I don't think that fell under the scope of 'repeatedly'?

Originally Posted by wuanahto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am more curious about the proc part of the change. My level 15 dwarf war on green just got a pair of obsidian daggers

Obsidian daggers won't be effective at this point in the servers, even pre nerf. Maybe offhand one while your dual wield doesn't produce many swings (they can proc even if they don't swing), but you need a much better ratio primary to generate consistent white aggro.

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the issue is the scale for mob hp is broken.

IIRC max aggro should be achieved on mobs with hp in the ball park of the higher level DL giants.

I wouldn't be surprised if the implementation here doesn't achieve max aggro until the mobs have 10s of thousands of hp instead.



Original game vast majority of people were using like 6/27 weapons til pas their teens. Of course it was easier for low level SKs to keep aggro against this instead of rogues backstabbing with 13 dmg weapons.




The comments said things like it needed to be repeatedly cast. Obviously the current implementation seems to have underboiled the egg, but the previous was equally wrong.

2 DCs and MAYBE a shadow and you were keeping aggro an entire fight versus very twinked out melees. I don't think that fell under the scope of 'repeatedly'?




Obsidian daggers won't be effective at this point in the servers, even pre nerf. Maybe offhand one while your dual wield doesn't produce many swings (they can proc even if they don't swing), but you need a much better ratio primary to generate consistent white aggro.

💯☝️🏎🥇

[long.liam]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the issue is the scale for mob hp is broken.

IIRC max aggro should be achieved on mobs with hp in the ball park of the higher level DL giants.

I wouldn't be surprised if the implementation here doesn't achieve max aggro until the mobs have 10s of thousands of hp instead.



Original game vast majority of people were using like 6/27 weapons til pas their teens. Of course it was easier for low level SKs to keep aggro against this instead of rogues backstabbing with 13 dmg weapons.




The comments said things like it needed to be repeatedly cast. Obviously the current implementation seems to have underboiled the egg, but the previous was equally wrong.

2 DCs and MAYBE a shadow and you were keeping aggro an entire fight versus very twinked out melees. I don't think that fell under the scope of 'repeatedly'?




Obsidian daggers won't be effective at this point in the servers, even pre nerf. Maybe offhand one while your dual wield doesn't produce many swings (they can proc even if they don't swing), but you need a much better ratio primary to generate consistent white aggro.

The formula for Spell Effect hate is Mob HP/15, so to hit the max of 1200 you would need to cast on a mob with at least 18,000 HP.