New Druid Advice from the experts

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I disagree. Considering you didn't know there were bats in the Warrens until a few days ago

Yeah, talking a zone you just explored clearly means you don't know what you're talking about. It'd be like posting in a Druid advice thread and arguing about Druid charming, when you've never, you know, charmed as a Druid [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, talking a zone you just explored clearly means you don't know what you're talking about. It'd be like posting in a Druid advice thread and arguing about Druid charming, when you've never, you know, charmed as a Druid [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've done quite a bit of killing and item camping in the Warrens. I've done quite a bit of charming on my Enchanter.

Lormain has lost all of the debates in this thread so throughly he is backed into the corner. Fallacies and lies are all he can muster.

Please quit while you are behind and stop spamming the thread.

You still haven't addressed this post:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Loramin still refuses to acknowledge he attacked me first in this thread. He blames me... for his attack on me.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...8&postcount=22

Remember when Loramin said he admits when he is wrong, and then immediately refuses to admit he was wrong in the next post?

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=199

Yes, there are multiple bad posters in this thread who refuse to take responsibility for their actions, including yourself Loramin.

Blaming me for your bad behavior is silly. Everybody can read the thread. Your behavior makes you look childish and delusional.

[loramin]

If I were you, I wouldn't be proud of bringing that up ... since it proves the opposite of what you're trying to prove.

When you referrred to the ring's mana savings, I initially assumed you were referring to the direct mana saving, ie. the invis mana it saves you. You claimed I assumed incorrectly:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For context, he specified the mana saving wasn't for "invis mana", it was for nukes. Mana is mana, saving mana means you have more mana for any spell you want. I never claimed that the mana saved was exculsively used for invis.

But then BCBrown called you out:

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When you say the goblin ring saves mana, exactly what are you saying? Are you talking about the mana savings from not having to cast the 30 mana IVA? Do you believe there any other mana savings from using a gobling ring?

Your response was:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you click Goblin Ring 10 times in an hour, you saved 300 mana by not casting spell invis for 30 mana each time. If you click it more, you get more savings.

Flowing Thought 1 gives you 600 mana per hour.

Both give you a few hundred mana per hour, and people like that. People pay 60k for that 600 mana per hour.

You are assuming you need Goblin Ring to save nuke mana. I disagree, and you haven't supplied any evidence showing you need Goblin Ring to save that nuke mana. This is referring to using instant invis to break charm later, which allows you to use a lower cost nuke.

... demonstrating that you were in fact thinking of the only invis mana. This happened on page 22: even after twenty-two pages, you still didn't understand the primary way the ring saves mana!

So no, that's not embarassing to me in the slightest ... except for the part when I gave you the benefit of the doubt, and apologized (when I in fact called you out correctly in the first place).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

... demonstrating that you were in fact thinking of the only invis mana. This happened on page 22: even after twenty-two pages, you still didn't understand the primary way the ring saves mana!

So no, that's not embarassing to me in the slightest ... except for the part when I gave you the benefit of the doubt and apologized, when I shouldn't have.

Yikes. The desparation here is honestly embarassing. For a person who claims to admit when they make a mistake, you are literally doing mental gymnastics here to try and save face.

This is your problem Loramin. You think your interpretation of someones words must be correct, and the person who wrote those words has no say on the matter. Unfortunately you think up really strange concepts that don't match people's words. This is why I say you have reading comprehension issues.

All I can say is you brought up "invis mana" as a term. I didn't. That is a concept you created and projected on to me.

If you think this quote implies you are only saving "invis mana":

If you click Goblin Ring 10 times in an hour, you saved 300 mana by not casting spell invis for 30 mana each time. If you click it more, you get more savings.

Flowing Thought 1 gives you 600 mana per hour.

Both give you a few hundred mana per hour, and people like that. People pay 60k for that 600 mana per hour.

You are assuming you need Goblin Ring to save nuke mana. I disagree, and you haven't supplied any evidence showing you need Goblin Ring to save that nuke mana. This is referring to using instant invis to break charm later, which allows you to use a lower cost nuke.

That is further proof you can't read well.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

... demonstrating that you were in fact thinking of the only invis mana. This happened on page 22: even after twenty-two pages, you still didn't understand the primary way the ring saves mana!

So no, that's not embarassing to me in the slightest ... except for the part when I gave you the benefit of the doubt, and apologized (when I in fact called you out correctly in the first place).

I took another look at this quote and it made me realize Loramin probably didn't read all of my posts between page 2 and page 22. I expected this, but thank you for the confirmation.

Here are two examples of me talking about nuke mana savings on page 4 and page 8:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...7&postcount=37

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You would somehow need to show that the increased risk of losing the mob from breaking as late as possible is not as bad as the extra downtime from occasionally using 2 nukes instead of 1. Usually the loss of the mob is a bigger waste of time/resources than an occasional extra nuke from my experience.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...2&postcount=72

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You also admitted that once you have Lumi Staff or ES arms, you can save the same nuke mana with mana free damage clickies anyway. So you don't need Goblin Ring for the same mana saving levels 49+, when Stealthy Ring is clickable.

My position has been that the instant cast component of Goblin Ring is not necessary to save nuke mana, and it doesn't provide a special advantage. That is why I've been focusing on the actual mana saving component of Goblin Ring/Ring of Stealthy Travel, which is the ability to cast invis for free.

As a simple example, here is my Enchanter getting 100% XP on both mobs while Charm killing with my level 12 damage spell Choke, which costs 50 mana. My higher level damage spells Suffocate and Chaos Flux cost 100 mana:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYCpsgMYx7A

This video shows that you can get 100% XP on both mobs AND save nuke mana while using spell cast invis. Goblin Ring is not required.

Loramin (and the other posters who agree with him) have to somehow prove that the instant cast component of Goblin Ring actually helped them get 100% XP on both mobs AND helped them save nuke mana. This is a difficult task, because you have to somehow provide evidence that the Goblin Ring did it, even though you can do the exact same thing without Goblin Ring.

[bcbrown]

Pretty sure the only reason DSM is so fixated on warrens/paneel is that fatdog thread from seven years ago.

It's a fine suggestion for an off-the-beaten-path leveling route for a druid. If you want to charm as much as possible it's clearly worse than EK. Having to use gate as a safety hatch is clearly worse than being able to easily run to zone (with a friendly guard there). Having to run back across the entire zone to the bats from the Paneel side takes time.

And you're not going to get the necessary Paneel faction by the time everything greens out anyway.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pretty sure the only reason DSM is so fixated on warrens/paneel is that fatdog thread from seven years ago.

Not really. I've done Warrens before. It's a fun zone. The fatdog thread is just another data point, and Druid specific.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Having to use gate as a safety hatch is clearly worse than being able to easily run to zone (with a friendly guard there). Having to run back across the entire zone to the bats from the Paneel side takes time.

East Karana is a big zone too. Gate is a great escape tool, not sure why you are trying to knock it.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And you're not going to get the necessary Paneel faction by the time everything greens out anyway.

It sounds like you haven't done Warrens for Heretic factioning before.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

East Karana is a big zone too. Gate is a great escape tool, not sure why you are trying to knock it.

I'm guessing you've never charmed in EK before. You set up along the river just north of the bridge. That way you can easily run to zone if you need to. Gate is a great escape tool but a nearby zoneline is even better. Doesn't cost mana, no chance of getting interrupted, and you'll have sow up too.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It sounds like you haven't done Warrens for Heretic factioning before.

I'm just going off Fatdog's thread:

At this point, we need faction and faction primarily. Foodmaster and Smithy may or may not spawn as Exp-giving mobs, but the pit fighters still will.
22 will be painfully slow as we are basically farming faction at this point. To avoid going insane, I recommend taking up alternative hobbies you can do while AFK; browsing instagram, knitting, reading a book or even braiding your cat's hair.

Upon dinging in level 23, I realized something. I have severaly underestimated the amount of faction per kill I was getting. So much so, that being the lovely tree hugger that I am, even killing doggos from level 8 to 23 has still got me at threatening with Paineel.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm guessing you've never charmed in EK before. You set up along the river just north of the bridge. That way you can easily run to zone if you need to. Gate is a great escape tool but a nearby zoneline is even better. Doesn't cost mana, no chance of getting interrupted, and you'll have sow up too.

When you have SoW, Root, Snare, and Invis in your kit, it's typically not difficult to gate. It's not a big problem, or a significant reason to avoid Warrens. If you really need to run to the zoneline in Warrens, just invis first before you start running. Mobs won't agro you when you run by them this way, they'll only agro after the train reaches them. This allows you to generally avoid getting hit/stunned while running away.

When it comes to factioning in Warrens, the low level mob density allows you to easily mass kill mobs if you didn't get enough faction while leveling. This is especially true for a class like Druids, who get aoe and pbaoe spells. Again, it's not a big deal.

You left out the next part of the guide, which says:

If you spend two or three hours doing this [mass killing], you will get to Amiably with the Paineel guards, which is what you would have required for the next step of this guide.

Getting a large chunk of faction while leveling is never a bad thing, and mass killing kobolds is what you would do to get paineel faction anyway at higher levels. You can obviously come back later at a higher level and finish the job if you want to level as fast as possible. You'll spend less time at a higher level mass killing if you leveled in Warrens at a low level.

I've factioned in Warrens before, it's not bad at all.

[shovelquest]

Hey @grok what are these guys talking about.