Myconid Spore King - Monk Solo

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by Stryker85 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are the only one gate keeping the definition of a "solo kill" under YOUR OWN standards. There's a reason the wiki had a whole section about what is and what is not allowed for outside buffs, and for which classes. Convenient that you deleted all of that to support your own argument. Anyone can claim anything is true if they're the ones editing the history books. Do I need to copy/paste it every time you post to remind everyone that all of this is your OWN AGENDA that you're trying to push, and goes against the very standards that the creator of the challenge set.
"In general the idea is that you could zone in and kill the mob on your own. Outside buffs are not permitted for casters; melee can get as many buffs as they like as they are already at a considerable disadvantage."

It doesn't get any more clear than that. Nothing you can ever say will change what the original standards for the challenge were. Funny how you only saw the need to change things after someone posts a video like this, but nooo you're not envious at all, right?


Needing a separate category for an unbuffed kill WITH no consumables would imply that it is possible to do under those conditions in the first place - News Flash: It's not. How about this, if you want to create a rank higher than what was previously listed, then how about you go out and prove that its possible under those conditions before you make up said rank.


LOL OK - So let me get this straight, now raid gear is considered outside help too?? Jesus, the levels of copium here are insane.


No one here is trying to "default them to being all the same" at all. We're just simply saying that adding a rank higher than what was previously considered the top echelon of the challenge should only be done after someone proves that it's even possible to do so in the first place. You can't sit there and claim "wElL yA, bUt YoU cOuLd'Ve DoNe It UnDeR hArDeR cOnDiTiOnS" if no one has ever shown that its even remotely possible to do under those conditions.

My no charge kill was done under the absolute hardest conditions that anyone has ever solo'd the king under. There's only been 2 people that have solo'd the king prior. One used multiple "strong clicky" charges like puppet strings, slowstone amber, etc. The other used multiple characters for the kill (a druid for the pull, and then a chanter for the kill). Trying to claim that the person who did it self buffed using multiple characters is the same thing as someone doing it solo with one toon is whats disingenuous here.

If you want to create an S+ rank, then login and show us that its possible before you try to theorize your bullshit from the sidelines.

I think there's a misunderstanding here, it is a sick kill and grats on doing it.

But in a vacuum, there's a hierarchy of kills and unbuffed ranks higher. Those types of challenges exist to see how far you can push the class and solo, self buffed and no "strong clickies" is basically the highest step. If it can be done it can and if it can't it can't. The whole point is seeing what can and can't be done and finding the minimum threshold basically. If you've found it for monk on fungi king and it required buffs then so be it! You set the bar higher, you're the first to do it and possibly last.

The raid gear point is a theoretical argument about staying consistent with the rules. IIRC the solo artist challenge was during kunark era. So if today my 1400hp chanter gets an aego to 2500hp it is not considered "legal" according to the challenge but with velious power creep if I get BIS VP/TOV gear I'll probably be sitting around 2500hp self buffed. What's the difference? I'm just saying context is important. They might nerf lull to the point where you can't lull mobs above level 50 so a lot of chanters kills of yore will lose significance if that ever hits since some of the strategies will no longer be viable. That would make some newer kills more difficult thus rank higher and it will be up to chanters to see what can and can't be done under new ruleset.

P.S. I think splorf22 is lorean, and I think lorean got a clean solo chanter kill on king too.

[Stryker85]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think there's a misunderstanding here, it is a sick kill and grats on doing it.

But in a vacuum, there's a hierarchy of kills and unbuffed ranks higher. Those types of challenges exist to see how far you can push the class and solo, self buffed and no "strong clickies" is basically the highest step. If it can be done it can and if it can't it can't. The whole point is seeing what can and can't be done and finding the minimum threshold basically. If you've found it for monk on fungi king and it required buffs then so be it! You set the bar higher, you're the first to do it and possibly last.

The raid gear point is a theoretical argument about staying consistent with the rules. IIRC the solo artist challenge was during kunark era. So if today my 1400hp chanter gets an aego to 2500hp it is not considered "legal" according to the challenge but with velious power creep if I get BIS VP/TOV gear I'll probably be sitting around 2500hp self buffed. What's the difference? I'm just saying context is important. They might nerf lull to the point where you can't lull mobs above level 50 so a lot of chanters kills of yore will lose significance if that ever hits since some of the strategies will no longer be viable. That would make some newer kills more difficult thus rank higher.

P.S. I think splorf22 is lorean, and I think lorean got a clean solo chanter kill on king too.

I disagree whole-heartedly. I don't think anyone should be able to add ranks for a kill that never existed before and retroactively change the rules for clickies and buffs, unless they can prove that its possible under those standards first.

You are right though that Loraen is definitely Splorf22. I was thinking Loramin for some reason, I guess because he was involved in the thread earlier and was the person that locked the wiki with Zuranthium's changes. Sorry for the confusion.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Stryker85 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I disagree whole-heartedly. I don't think anyone should be able to add ranks for a kill that never existed before and retroactively change the rules for clickies and buffs, unless they can prove that its possible under those standards first.

You are right though that Loraen is definitely Splorf22. I was thinking Loramin for some reason, I guess because he was involved in the thread earlier and was the person that locked the wiki with Zuranthium's changes. Sorry for the confusion.

Why not? Loraen made this in 2012 when iksar hide boots were basically bis for monks. People forget how horribly bad melee gear was until velious. So it’s laughable that the condition should still exist that it’s ok to not buff casters but melee can be buffed while still competing against the same mobs.

This should absolutely be changed by someone who cares enough to do so and let the community decide on the relevant standards in 2025.

[Zuranthium]

So to recap the list of inanities from DSM/Stryker:

*Using 2 players and several different classes to complete an encounter is the best solo achievement possible

*Monks need outside buffs to be on the same level as casters for a solo challenge - despite already being extremely advantaged over Wizards, Clerics, Mages, Druids - and when that's not the point of solo challenges to begin with

*Outside buffs aren't an assist since it's only 1 character attacking the MOB, despite the fact that buffs are the same thing, in effect, as another player adding that same amount of DPS/healing during the fight

*People should be able to use as many healing potions as they want even though Soulfire click is disallowed, and the highest tier of challenge should allow a single wort pot even though that's no different than getting buffed by an outside source, which has always been prohibted for casters

*Spending 5 years grinding for gear on p99 is a skill on the same level as spending 5 years becoming a top ranked Chess player

*Ignore the impact of using Avatar and other procs/swapping to maximize a character's capability

*The stated goal of this thread of doing the kill without consumables is worthless, since everyone should slavishly cling onto an outdated wiki page that said so

*Anyone who thinks the most pure form of soloing is without outside buffs (most of the community) must be jealous and only started feeling that way after this thread was posted. Everyone who discusses and values soloing without outside buffs is only doing so because they want to deny people from playing the game any other way, even when all of those people encouraged the OP to do the kill without consumables and wanted to bring visibility to their video

[Stryker85]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why not? Loraen made this in 2012 when iksar hide boots were basically bis for monks. People forget how horribly bad melee gear was until velious. So it’s laughable that the condition should still exist that it’s ok to not buff casters but melee can be buffed while still competing against the same mobs.

This should absolutely be changed by someone who cares enough to do so and let the community decide on the relevant standards in 2025.

You're not understanding that making such a change would remove the ability for melees to compete against the most coveted and sought after solo kills. Do you think that only melees got stronger with Velious or something? Casters got better gear too, and much more powerful spells to go along with it. Melee's absolutely should be allowed buffs, or there would be no way for them to kill anything significantly challenging, including mobs that people would enjoy seeing solo'd the most, like spore king, ragefire, chardok royals, etc.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So to recap the list of inanities from DSM/Stryker:

*Using 2 players and several different classes to complete an encounter is the best solo achievement possible

*Monks need outside buffs to be on the same level as casters for a solo challenge - despite already being extremely advantaged over Wizards, Clerics, Mages, Druids - and when that's not the point of solo challenges to begin with

*Outside buffs aren't an assist since it's only 1 character attacking the MOB, despite the fact that buffs are the same thing, in effect, as another player adding that same amount of DPS/healing during the fight

*People should be able to use as many healing potions as they want even though Soulfire click is disallowed, and the highest tier of challenge should allow a single wort pot even though that's no different than getting buffed by an outside source, which has always been prohibted for casters

*Spending 5 years grinding for gear on p99 is a skill on the same level as spending 5 years becoming a top ranked Chess player

*Ignore the impact of using Avatar and other procs/swapping to maximize a character's capability

*The stated goal of this thread of doing the kill without consumables is worthless, since everyone should slavishly cling onto an outdated wiki page that said so

*Anyone who thinks the most pure form of soloing is without outside buffs (most of the community) must be jealous and only started feeling that way after this thread was posted. Everyone who discusses and values soloing without outside buffs is only doing so because they want to deny people from playing the game any other way, even when all of those people encouraged the OP to do the kill without consumables and wanted to bring visibility to their video

This is why I keep saying you have reading comprehension issues. Or you are trolling. You do know that other people can actually go back and read the thread, right? Posting nonsense summaries over and over just makes you look like a troll or person who cannot read well.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Solo means no outside buffs and no consumables. That's the ENTIRE discussion that's been taking placing in this thread from the start, and was explicitly stated yet again in the post you quoted. Jesus christ.

The reality of the situation is you believe that the only thing that counts as solo is no outside buffs or consumables. You have been trying to force this idea on everybody else, and at the expense of OP by trying to demerit OP's accomplishment.

Many people disagree with your idea. But you stubbornly refuse to accept this, to the point where you modified the solo artist challenge page to try and win the argument. That doesn't work, and the wiki will be fixed.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Stryker85 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're not understanding that making such a change would remove the ability for melees to compete against the most coveted and sought after solo kills. Do you think that only melees got stronger with Velious or something? Casters got better gear too, and much more powerful spells to go along with it. Melee's absolutely should be allowed buffs, or there would be no way for them to kill anything significantly challenging, including mobs that people would enjoy seeing solo'd the most, like spore king, ragefire, chardok royals, etc.

I don't really understand this line of thinking. Melees can still attempt solo kills with outside buffs even if there's a "self-buff only" category. People will still enjoy watching videos of those solo attempts. I watched your video and it was a very impressive solo kill and an accomplishment of which you're deservedly proud.

The idea that it would prevent melee classes from competing also clashes with the fact that only like 6 or so classes can even attempt these fights (without pupper strings) to begin with, right? It's shamans and echanters, then monks and necros, and then what? Bards come to mind, druids on the very few fights where there's an animal to charm, but are there any wizards, rogues, warriors attempting solo artist challenges?

I don't think it makes a ton of sense to have tiered requirements either. Whether it's more challenging to have no outside buffs or no consumables may depend on the class or the fight and the class. Just have it be a flat "solo kill" with a list of optional modifiers a player can add like no outside buffs, no strong clickies, no consumables, whatever. Let the individual viewer decide what they feel is most impressive.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't really understand this line of thinking. Melees can still attempt solo kills with outside buffs even if there's a "self-buff only" category. People will still enjoy watching videos of those solo attempts. I watched your video and it was a very impressive solo kill and an accomplishment of which you're deservedly proud.

The idea that it would prevent melee classes from competing also clashes with the fact that only like 6 or so classes can even attempt these fights (without pupper strings) to begin with, right? It's shamans and echanters, then monks and necros, and then what? Bards come to mind, druids on the very few fights where there's an animal to charm, but are there any wizards, rogues, warriors attempting solo artist challenges?

I don't think it makes a ton of sense to have tiered requirements either. Whether it's more challenging to have no outside buffs or no consumables may depend on the class or the fight and the class. Just have it be a flat "solo kill" with a list of optional modifiers a player can add like no outside buffs, no strong clickies, no consumables, whatever. Let the individual viewer decide what they feel is most impressive.

The main issue posters like myself and OP have is Zuranthium is trying to claim nothing is solo unless it is self buff only and no consumables.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Solo means no outside buffs and no consumables. That's the ENTIRE discussion that's been taking placing in this thread from the start, and was explicitly stated yet again in the post you quoted. Jesus christ.

Zuranthium is trying to claim OP's video is a group kill with 4 players because OP had 3 outside buffs from 3 different classes lol. Those players did not help OP at all during the kill, the video evidence shows this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

YOU DID NOT USE ONE CHARACTER. YOU USED 4 CHARACTERS AND REQUIRED A 2ND PLAYER TO LOG ON YOUR ALTS.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aegolism is no different than someone directly casting a 1,000-ish point heal on you during a fight. Haste/STR/ATK/DS buffs are no different than someone casting a damage spell that does the amount of damage those buffs provided. The fight has the exact same result in both cases.

That is obviously a nonsensical position to have.

[Stryker85]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So to recap the list of inanities from DSM/Stryker:

*Using 2 players and several different classes to complete an encounter is the best solo achievement possible

Here you go being a disingenuous piece of shit again. This is why nobody here can take you seriously. HAVING BUFFS IS NOT THE SAME THING AS USING MULTIPLE PLAYERS TO COMPLETE THE ENCOUNTER. The fact that you are trying to use such reductive phrasing tells us everything we need to know about what a deceitful little prick you are.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

*Monks need outside buffs to be on the same level as casters for a solo challenge - despite already being extremely advantaged over Wizards, Clerics, Mages, Druids - and when that's not the point of solo challenges to begin with

Yes, monks need outside buffs to be able to keep up with casters, maybe not all casters, but the ones capable of soloing anything significant. And guess what? It's not just about monks! Monks may have the smallest gap to make up between melee and casters, but that rule still applied to same for melees that needed the help from buffs even more, like rogues and warriors.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

*Outside buffs aren't an assist since it's only 1 character attacking the MOB, despite the fact that buffs are the same thing, in effect, as another player adding that same amount of DPS/healing during the fight

I don't know if you think people are going to read this list and think you're somehow not insane for making these completely asinine and reductive arguments... like people can't see right through this bullshit. NO, buffs are NOT the same thing as having other players there DPSing, healing, and helping with the fight. You claiming this just shows your own delusional bias.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

*People should be able to use as many healing potions as they want even though Soulfire click is disallowed, and the highest tier of challenge should allow a single wort pot even though that's no different than getting buffed by an outside source, which has always been prohibted for casters

Before you deleted the previous rule-set, the "strong clickies" and heal pot rules were clearly defined and abided by for years. It wasn't until I posted my spore king solo vids that triggered your fragile insecurity so badly that you decided to delete everything and posted your own made up standards, for a game that you admittedly don't even play anymore. Remind me again why you should have ANY say in this at all??

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

*Spending 5 years grinding for gear on p99 is a skill on the same level as spending 5 years becoming a top ranked Chess player

Now you're just bold faced lying and putting words in my mouth. Anyone can search my post history, I've never once even mentioned the word chess in this forum, much less tried to equate it to video game skill. Again this deceitful behavior is just par for the course for you.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

*Ignore the impact of using Avatar and other procs/swapping to maximize a character's capability

I HAVE killed the King with Avatar and 2h toggling the entire fight, multiple times. Remind me again which one of us has solo'd the king numerous times now, and which one of us hasn't done jack and doesn't even play the game anymore? That's what I thought, moron.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

*The stated goal of this thread of doing the kill without consumables is worthless, since everyone should slavishly cling onto an outdated wiki page that said so

Again this is just completely reductive and disingenuous logic. Yes, the whole goal was to complete the kill without consumables, but that doesn't mean that the wiki should be changed to fit your own deranged agenda and ridiculous standards like disallowing buffs entirely for melee classes.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

*Anyone who thinks the most pure form of soloing is without outside buffs (most of the community) must be jealous and only started feeling that way after this thread was posted. Everyone who discusses and values soloing without outside buffs is only doing so because they want to deny people from playing the game any other way, even when all of those people encouraged the OP to do the kill without consumables and wanted to bring visibility to their video

I literally never said any of that either. I think DSM might be onto something... it seems like your reading comprehension isn't very good, or, more likely, you still just being a disingenuous piece of shit. I think everyone here knows which one it is.

Who are you to decide what the most "pure form of soloing" is? Are you the solo master? Someone who doesn't even play the game anymore?

News flash, this is a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME. Buffs exist for a reason, that is to make things easier or possible when they otherwise would not be. If they were only meant to be used when you were grouped, then they would be coded to fade or not land when you're alone. Anyone with half a brain on these forums can see the fallacies and reductive nature of your arguments, and see right away for themselves that you are not debating in good faith. Putting words in people's mouth and trying to reframe the argument to suit your own narrative isn't going to work here.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by Stryker85 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I disagree whole-heartedly. I don't think anyone should be able to add ranks for a kill that never existed before and retroactively change the rules for clickies and buffs, unless they can prove that its possible under those standards first.

The rules aren't changing, Those ranks just exist wether you want it or not and wether those kills are possible or not. Just like solo monk buffed myconid king existed before you did it, it's just that no one did it before and some people probably deemed it impossible but you came and did it. As far as I'm concerned it isn't a lesser kill because it was buffed but if someone came self buffed and did it then yeah, that would be better. You seem to think it is impossible to do it unbuffed and if so then that's great, you found the lowest possible threshold it is possible to kill the myconid king which is pretty noteworthy in itself, that's basically the goal of the SAC, pushing the class to the edge.

I think some people prefere self buffed feats because it evens the playing field but I see it just like powerlifting. It's cool to see what a natural dude can do but it is also cool to see a juiced guy hit a 1000lbs deadlift. It's just done under different variables and it has to be acknowledged.

What's the biggest self buffed monk kill anyway?