How do monks hold aggro in groups

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That proc is 520 hate (120dd + stun) and 30 is the sweet spot for delay on 2h. You can rip aggro on raids with that thing if you get a string of procs. You definitely hold aggro better than an average warrior with one of those.

All off a KC trash drop that out dps’s all epic weapons and does well into velious/luclin. What do you think the logic was there?

[Snaggles]

The non-VP Kunark staves certainly allowed the monk to easily land in the 2nd dps spot behind rogues. Making the stun irresistible seems excessive. They didn’t even provide that to procs on the pally or sk epic.

[Vexenu]

I think someone on the dev team was really, really into the whole "martial artist fighting with a staff" thing and they went overboard itemizing Monk 2HBs in Kunark. Note that Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace (which featured Darth Maul and his iconic double-bladed lightsaber) was released approximately a year before Kunark, and the impressive martial arts techniques demonstrated by Ray Park in the film likely inspired one or more of the devs.

The Tranquil Staff is absolutely a bonkers item though, to the extent that if you just threw some stats and HP on it, no one would have complained if it was the Monk Epic. At the very least, you'd expect it to be VP loot or drop off Trakanon. But the fact that that such a ridiculously powerful item drops off an XP mob in KC is totally bizarre and inexplicable, just one of the many oddities of classic EQ.

[Crede]

Yea I think they got the mitigation part right but not the dps part. id be curious if anyone would play a monk for their pulling/tanking abilities if they got rid of their dps to where they were even below bards.

[Snaggles]

I’m no historian but improvised weapons from feudal Japan have been put on an incredibly high pedestal due to the martial arts/ninjification fad in the 80’s and 90’s. Specifically, the Karate strip mall dojos and movies which originated or profited from it. To date one of the most used tropes is the iconic “staff training scene” aboard every sci fi ship or bunker. It literally makes no sense.

I feel they could have pushed the lore a bit for the monks. It would have been more realistic to make the tranquil staff a short spear or mace. I wish they had spent more time justifying the dps with weapons like that, or fine tuning avoidance over mitigation. I can kind of squint at monks avoiding more attacks on the battle field (like an innate version of the warrior Evasive discipline) but any real blow landed to someone in a robe isn’t going to flinched off like someone in plate armor.

I’m sure that Velious stage monks are a product of being ignored in classic and overcompensated for. Without spells you have to make the pure melees do something well for class balance (fun and effectiveness).

It’s a great class and I’m glad accurate the era. I totally get why people love them and everyone has a monk. They are just a bit trendy for me.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The non-VP Kunark staves certainly allowed the monk to easily land in the 2nd dps spot behind rogues. Making the stun irresistible seems excessive. They didn’t even provide that to procs on the pally or sk epic.

The SK epic proc is not quite unresistable, but close enough most folks aren't going to notice the difference. The resists on raid mobs on P99 is a custom change here (and a rather rude one at that), not classic. Paladin epic was notoriously mediocre in-era. General sentiment was that upgrading Fiery Avenger s little bit was considered "good enough" while everyone else got most of the work.

You're correct about how asiatic combat forms and weapons tend to be massively over-hyped. This isn't just due to the 80/90's era fad, but also stems in part from larger cultural differences. Westerners tend to dismiss old stuff as backwards and useless; the eastern cultures are more apt to treat their past with some veneration. So you have medieval knights being laughed at as little more than barbarians with slightly shapened clubs, and samurais or monks treated like some sort of unstoppable force of nature--both assessments being silly extremes, in opposite directions. In actual reality, prior to Japan closing outside trade, their wealthy class and nobility was happy to import and purchase european armor any chance they had because it was widely regarded as more effective than domestic equivalents.

Dual-wielding is another one of those common fantasy game tropes that barely existed in reality. Or we have studded armor, a complete fantasy which probably originates from the D&D game designers not understanding what brigandine armor was. In the end we can all accept our game for what it is, imperfections and all, because it's still enjoyable regardless. And--ultimately--Norrath is its own world with its own rules, and its history and rules aren't the same as our Earth's.

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea I think they got the mitigation part right but not the dps part. id be curious if anyone would play a monk for their pulling/tanking abilities if they got rid of their dps to where they were even below bards.

Probably not. Might as well just play an SK at that point (which are already superior pullers in skilled hands).

Now, if Monks had something like an offensive/defensive stance they could switch in and out of (higher DPS/less tanky and vice versa) they'd still be played. Their raid and group roles would be preserved but they'd lose some of their solo power (a healthy nerf, IMO, and one that fits well with Monk/martial arts lore of different fighting styles).

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In the end we can all accept our game for what it is, imperfections and all, because it's still enjoyable regardless. And--ultimately--Norrath is its own world with its own rules, and its history and rules aren't the same as our Earth's.

Agreed on all accounts [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] .

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All off a KC trash drop that out dps’s all epic weapons and does well into velious/luclin. What do you think the logic was there?

At first they thought people wouldn't camp items and just roam dungeons. Don't know how much they course corrected that one for kunark but it is possible they thought being ultra rare would make it... ultra rare. Here every monk has one because the servers have been farmed for 8+ years and every monk and their brother knows about it.

The counter point is back on live it wasn't uncommon to find 30-50 people in KC so it would end up dropping a fair bit but there was also 2500 people online every day so they'd be spread pretty thin anyway. I remember IFS back then were pretty cheap all things considered because not many monks cared about 2 handers, most people had like a wu stick and a KD and the monks with a lot of money had the AC/Epic+SOS combo. A KD went for 2k during luclin back then IIRC. Today I don't think people even bother looting them.

[Keebz]

KDs were even more expensive than that. Cane of the Tranquil was 1k. People really liked dual wielding. NGL tho dual KDs were sweet.