"Banned" people are like "Sinners" arguing with God

[mitic]

messianic the idea per se is a good thing but

child molesting, inventing celibacy so the churchs patrimony stays in the church, church tax (in austria), prohibiting condoms in the existence of aids (especialy precarious in 3rd world countries) and all the other atrocities from the past like witch hunts (on topic haha), holy crusades, proselytization...a list that never ends should open someones eyes in the modern era

[Harrison]

You say child molesting like it's a localized, accepted doctrine in that religion and exists nowhere else.

Pathetic logic lol

[Messianic]

Mitic...None of the examples you provided even affect any of the points I made. You just listed more of a "list of grievances" or things you don't like about "the church" (however undefined).

What you listed off were most often errors in judgment where the church was merged or blended in some way with government (the choice power base of any atrocity).

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

child molesting

Not a church specific issue - plenty of kids are being molested by nonchristians, and it's more prevalant in teetotaler religions with a strong central power base (case in point, the Catholics). Most Christian denominations are confederated, not centralized - so blaming "the church" or "religion" for something assumes the church or religion are some homogenous entity. It doesn't stand up in the realms of criticism where people are actually well-read, even if they take something close to your position.

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

inventing celibacy so the churchs patrimony stays in the church

There's far more to it than that, but if patrimony is the same thing as starving your own citizens to death under Atheistic communism, you can have this one.

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

church tax (in austria)

That's a governmental problem, not a church problem. Why your people allow your government to directly subsidize a particular religion is beyond me.

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

prohibiting condoms in the existence of aids (especialy precarious in 3rd world countries)

Which government enforces this prohibition? If a government does not and there is no direct coercion, it's voluntary.

Are people forced to do what the Pope says?

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and all the other atrocities from the past like witch hunts (on topic haha)

Witch Hunts are a knowledge problem, not a religious problem. People who were nonreligious or only loosely associated with the church supported these as well. Pagans and native americans have a history of punishing individuals believed to be in concert with evil spirits. That's not a church specific issue. It's a knowledge issue.

You could say the same thing about the medical community hundreds of years ago for the crap they thought was a decent treatment for a range of symptoms/diseases.

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

holy crusades

Most - and the most brutal - were directed at other Christians to support a central power base that was under political siege. Go ahead, study it. You'll find it's far different than you may have learned in a basic European history class. It was the merger of the political class with the religious class without an anarchy in religious markets.

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

proselytization...

...So it's an evil atrocity to preach and seek converts? Dunno, I don't know why you even mention this.

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

a list that never ends should open someones eyes in the modern era

You could also list the names of the people killed by Mao and Stalin and compare it to the list of people killed in the name of religion - any religion. Strange how those two antireligious men were able to top the rest of history - combined.

[mitic]

messianc i started a thread replying to every argument u stated but then i realized that we could go on forever with counter-arguments so ill stop right here

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually, The largest massacres in terms of numbers by any single entity was Maoist China, with Stalin as the runner up...and they did it to more people more quickly and more brutally than all the centuries of church atrocities combined.

But we know they were strict adherents to the doctrines of the Christian church, right?

gaiz my religion or non religion has killed 2 more ppl than your religion or non religion!