Discussion: Play Nice (Training, Bind Camping)

[Nirgon]

There's a big difference between someone not knowing to /pet get lost or control their pet otherwise (I know it was an enchanter pet, hence the /pet get lost), mobs getting involved as a result in pvp and....

someone coming into the zone, grabbing every mob they can on the way to someone and feign deathing or gating.


"Mobs killed me because of him, ban him immediately"

The GMs on live would have to make a good case for doing so, or at least a repeated history. A druid, "Poor" in PB was famous for going into Karnor, grabbing everything and running out whenever a kos player was in the zone. He got away with "I didn't mean to pull all that", albeit in his broken engrish, for a very short time. It really falls under the terms of repeated abuse of the mechanic or constant zone disruption.

In my time with mobs in pvp, I had bards repeatedly charm something, tell it to attack me and then run off and get another mob. No GM response. I think the governing rule on RZ live wasn't training, but moreso clear and intentional XP loss.

[Softcore PK]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the governing rule on RZ live wasn't training, but moreso clear and intentional XP loss.

This makes a lot of sense.

[Nirgon]

Any time mobs become involved in PvP, there will be screams for bans and people that are banned/leave/accuse GM favoritism on a pvp server.

The no training rule exists on live and people don't seem to be getting away with it in cases that aren't grey areas or accidents.

[Darwoth]

less rules the better, training always has and always will be part of eq pvp regardless of the rules (wasnt allowed on rz)

problem is that usually the guy retaliating is the one caught and punished, an SZ anything goes ruleset is the best.

if someone binds next to a spawn im trying to camp/xp on what am i supposed to do? kill him then let him med up and shit on my face because killing him again is against the rules?

the only rules should be no third party programs, simplifies the workload and keeps things fair.

[Billbike]

Policing training is like policing marijuana. Seems good on paper, but in practice it fails.

[Softcore PK]

Originally Posted by Darwoth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

less rules the better, training always has and always will be part of eq pvp regardless of the rules (wasnt allowed on rz)

problem is that usually the guy retaliating is the one caught and punished, an SZ anything goes ruleset is the best.

if someone binds next to a spawn im trying to camp/xp on what am i supposed to do? kill him then let him med up and shit on my face because killing him again is against the rules?

the only rules should be no third party programs, simplifies the workload and keeps things fair.

In this case, bindpoint camping should not be an issue. You'd be hard pressed to find a GM that would take action against you for this (hopefully).

Originally Posted by Billbike [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Policing training is like policing marijuana. Seems good on paper, but in practice it fails.

:/

Marijuana is a victimless crime, training is not. Not a very good comparison.

[Lovely]

No one seem to give a flying shit about the training rules on beta. Everytime you head to lguk for pvp there are trains all over the place

[Vohl]

Here are some thoughts about border cases.

So what happens if someone jumps you while you're a FD class engaged with mobs? FD dumps them on your attackers, in effect training them. I think this is acceptable.

What if a pet class attacks you in a dungeon and you have fear/blind prepped? Sending the pet off to die at the hands of nearby monsters, who then jump the pet caster also seems acceptable. The pet caster can dump the pet if he doesn't like what's happening.

Running away into a room packed full of mobs using invis or FD also seems fine by me. Anyone chasing you would in effect just be training themselves.

Attacking a group that has mezzed mobs in camp, and breaking their mezzes is another matter. In effect, you're sabotaging their CC, causing the enchanter or bard in the group to take an XP death in pretty short order. This seems to be wrong; killing the bard or enchanter while mobs are in camp would have a similar effect.

In more general terms, causing another player to take an XP death from mobs strikes me as wrong and harmful to the game. At the same time, enforcement looks very labor-intensive, if not downright impossible.

[lethdar]

Originally Posted by Billbike [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Policing training is like policing marijuana. Seems good on paper, but in practice it fails.

What a fail analogy.

[juicedsixfo]

Originally Posted by Lovely [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No one seem to give a flying shit about the training rules on beta. Everytime you head to lguk for pvp there are trains all over the place

Lets use some common sense here. The GMs aren't going to bother with 200 petitions a day from guk, unrest, etc.

The training rule will come in to play when a guild petitions that they were forming up to engage a boss mob, and one bard from an opposing guild zoned in and wiped them. The GMs can check the log, verify, and bam – you're done. That's what the rule is for primarily. It's not for zone battle bullshit. Though, if you bring all of guk with you to Lord room and FD as a monk on top of a group, I'm sure that will be grounds as well. Rule No. 1 – If you get trained, take screenshots, post it, see what happens, deal with it.