Spells: Shadow Knights & Vampiric Embrace

[Brinkman]

The knight Watch ( eq classic Sk specific website )

http://web.archive.org/web/200009041...pell_three.htm

Delivers lifetap via touch, can be used with weapon. Adds a proc to your melee that drains (Level/2)+1 hit points (12-26 hp)

This is from September 4, 2000. Notice how it says max drain is 26 hp... that would mean this info was listed prior to the kunark expansion and not updated when kunark came out. 50/2 + 1 = 26 which should lead us to the logical conclusion that this is the way the spell worked in pre-kunark EQ.

[Brinkman]

Everlore post from Kunark era again explaining how the spell works for SK

http://web.archive.org/web/200107112...+Embrace&type=



Submited by: reevar On: 9/11/2000 11:57:07 PM Rank: worst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 best
this spell does 1 point of damage for every 2 levels of the caster, plus 1 hit point. at lvl 22 it does 12 hp damage (22/2=11, 11+1=12). so it goes up 1 hit point every 2 levels after level 22. for example, it does 16 points of damage at lvl 30 (30/2=15, 15+1=16), 21 points of damage at lvl 40, 26 points of damage at lvl 50, and 31 points of damage at lvl 60. this can mean the difference between living and "loading, please wait" throughout an SK's lifetime. A great little buff for all Sk's.

[kanras]

Fixed, pending update.

[Brinkman]

Originally Posted by kanras [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fixed, pending update.

Just curious how this change will be made.

The necro spell was definatally different, will two distinct spells be created like the OP mentioned?

And just fyi, not a SK hater at all, i just browse the bug forums giving some of my time to research.

Looks like its classic Sorry =(

[Hakurou]

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just curious how this change will be made.

The necro spell was definatally different, will two distinct spells be created like the OP mentioned?

And just fyi, not a SK hater at all, i just browse the bug forums giving some of my time to research.

Looks like its classic Sorry =(

I have no knowledge of how the EQEmu codebase works, but in general it should just require a single if statement checking the characters class, for example:

if (player_class() == shadow_knight) add_effect(VampEmbraceShadow);
else add_effect(VampEmbraceNecro);

Or check for necro first, whatever suites your needs. What question remains is if the spell does this class check if cast from items like Blood Ember Vambraces.

[Brinkman]

Trying to figure out when vamp embrace was changed to be the same for both classes, as it is on live now, and I remember it to be for a while.

found this so far

casters realm post of vamp embrace spell from 2002 ( luclin era)

This is a very Useful spell from level 22 to 39 and above 50. At level 39 SK's get a spell called Scream of Pain which is a proc for 25. Scream of Pain is not stackable with Vampiric embrace and will proc for more until level 50. Once Level 50 is reached Scream of pain becomes obsolete and Vampiric embrace should be used again.

[Nlaar]

The change in vampiric embrace has been implemented and now as a 60 SK I am proccing for 31 instead of 72. That said...

I am finding that after vampiric embrace wears off (I use BE arms clicky) I am occasionally still proccing as if I were still buffed. Anyone else finding this to be the case?

[thrump]

Originally Posted by Nlaar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The change in vampiric embrace has been implemented and now as a 60 SK I am proccing for 31 instead of 72. That said...

I am finding that after vampiric embrace wears off (I use BE arms clicky) I am occasionally still proccing as if I were still buffed. Anyone else finding this to be the case?

Yes. Just came here to say this. It is still proccing with the spell icon down.

[Daggoth]

The truth is not democratic, but at least now you have another story from an opposing hypothesis as you put it. Furthermore I take exception to your use of the word facts, the "evidence" leaves alot to be desired. As I said before I have better things to do, I'm currently a retired SK and just came back for a day to hang out with my guild for old times.

BTW I appreciate what you're trying to say about remembering the damage on spirit strike, but I'm not reciting npc text verbatim, I'm not drawing zone maps from memory. I haven't said it should be a 72 tap I'm recalling landmark thoughts that are only consistent if things were a certain way and that is vampiric embrace was a stronger tap than lifedraw pre kunark (and into kunark and beyond for that matter). It would be like an enchanter saying, "hrm that can't be right I know clarity is x minutes because I used to have to cast it every time I would cast _____". That's not a person beating his chest and saying, "I remember it was x minutes trust me x minutes is right x minutes just sticks in my head." that's a guy walking you through his recollection of events that would only be consistent if x minutes were the duration.

You have every right to run your server however you please, and I realize you can't go off changing every little thing on the whims of every nut with the patience to make a reasonably convincing post. But that's what was done here. Vampiric Embrace and the SKs who count on it have been wrongly compromised by busy bodies on a misguided crusade for classic accuracy.

I don't plan on commenting on this any further, as I said I'm retired and this doesn't really affect me any more but it's wrong. Shadow Knight Vampiric Embrace is working as the people who never played an SK think it did. You now have 2 hardcore veteran SKs telling you that it's not right.

*Edit*
If they have time I also would urge the devs to take a look at those VampEmbraceNecro and other such entries and see where they're being applied. Perhaps they're related to the NPC versions of the spell and may explain some of the database confusion, I've resisted NPC harm touches as well as embrace procs and they have a slightly modified name, HarmtouchNPC and VampEmbraceNecro

[Daggoth]

I see this is an old issue but I've been away for a few months and am just now finding this. I don't have any links to posts to add, and honestly I think hunting down old posts is only as useful as people want it to be.

Brinkman's evidence is compelling but innacurate and I can explain how this bad information circulated the net back then just as it does now.

Castersrealm or some omni site decides to compile info, they use spell charts from some brady strategy guide. Some other ambitious person decides they're gonna make a site but this one will be different from CR because it's gonna be just for SKs, but the proprietor of that site is himself only a level 12 SK and doesn't know anything beyond what castersrealm says so he copies and pastes it to his new better SK site. Now we have 2 people who never used a spell explaining to the world what it does, even with algorithms from that fancy strategy guide based on a chart given to the author back in beta.

Now I can tell you what I remember, I played an SK on povar back in 1999 on through to planes of power. To begin I can recall that vampiric embrace always gained +1 hp and +6 seconds every time you leveled. I can recall being annoyed by the fact that SKs best lifetap was via proc not actual controlled cast (I must not have known about life leech at the time). This was obviously pre kunark as SK gets plenty of solid taps post 50.

I can also recall the shroud of undeath spell line being a sidegrade not an upgrade. The reason it taps for 50 is because it had a much longer 20 minute duration, SKs were forced to make a difficult decision to constantly recast a significantly better short buff vs a weaker low hassle version.

My evidence is anecdotal and based on human memory, it doesn't have links to posts of speculation amongst random visitors to a spells page, and it's 100% right. A sane man has to admit that it's at least possible to remember wrong, but I don't believe that's the case here. Fortunately I have better things to do than go on a crusade for proof of authenticity.

Zeelot's link was compelling enough to have left this alone, it included reference to a specific patch date and someone's observations on the spell algorithm. Brinkman's links appear to be random blurbs from people theorizing on the usefulness of the spell, not one person saying, "I'm a level x SK and it's doing this much damage" it's just some guy running his mouth about what he imagines he'd do with that spell he just read about and now wants to comment on.

For what it's worth I also know Brinkman in real life. He advocated this change without consulting me. He meant well but was mislead by poorly fact checked posts. This is a perfect example of a conviction on flimsy evidence.

Well that's all I have to say, hope this gets repaired... every time my SK procs for 30 I get a little more angry.