Outlaw Powerleveling

[Swish]

Guys come on now...you don't need to log on your "wife's" account to sit in EC with such things as this:- http://ahungry.com/eqauctions

As seen in the "two-boxing" thread stickied, I'm extremely anti-boxing because trying to get a group with my rogue and even cleric would be an even trickier task with anti-social boxers all over the place on the server.

If you really want to play two accounts at once, do it positively and play 1 character on blue, 1 on red. Or pick another EQemu server, plenty there.

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As seen in the "two-boxing" thread stickied, I'm extremely anti-boxing because trying to get a group with my rogue and even cleric would be an even trickier task with anti-social boxers all over the place on the server.

So your theory is that the no 2 boxing rule forces people to group with you who otherwise wouldn't want to? Seems kinda selfish. Of course, that's not really the case since the people who would 2 box by themselves just play a solo class now. Groups would actually be easier to find since they are easier to start when someone can box a tank or cleric when one can't be found.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So your theory is that the no 2 boxing rule forces people to group with you who otherwise wouldn't want to? Seems kinda selfish.

I don't doubt there's some boxers already who think they're getting away with it permanently. If boxing was suddenly allowed, players who don't want to box become at a disadvantage and will then be turned towards levelling necromancers etc. No point levelling a rogue if there's nobody to group with right?

Groups would actually be easier to find since they are easier to start when someone can box a tank or cleric when one can't be found.

This is a very subjective view. People come back to a server like this to recreate the old EQ experience they had in 1999-2001. If they turn up, roll a rogue and then get into the teen levels to see a bunch of boxers who don't want to slow their progress down, that guy probably either:-

A - Rolls a soloable class (probably not a cleric or tank unless they're extra committed)
B - Leaves the server.

So in fact, by opening up P99 to boxers might water down the existing 'real' population (I know I'd quit for THF or something) and then you have the R99 situation where nobody logs in because the server population is already so low and the experience essentially is logging on, putting on LFG for a while, then giving up.

The underlying point is that boxing isn't allowed, and it should stay that way - or scrap R99 and make it a blue "boxing allowed" server.

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't doubt there's some boxers already who think they're getting away with it permanently. If boxing was suddenly allowed, players who don't want to box become at a disadvantage and will then be turned towards levelling necromancers etc. No point levelling a rogue if there's nobody to group with right?

Did you quote the wrong part of my post? Your argument doesn't make sense anyway, but it makes even less sense with the part of the post you quoted. I wasn't arguing that there are people 2 boxing now. I argued people who would normally 2 box by themselves will probably just solo by themselves with the current rules.

This is a very subjective view. People come back to a server like this to recreate the old EQ experience they had in 1999-2001. If they turn up, roll a rogue and then get into the teen levels to see a bunch of boxers who don't want to slow their progress down, that guy probably either:-

A - Rolls a soloable class (probably not a cleric or tank unless they're extra committed)
B - Leaves the server.

So in fact, by opening up P99 to boxers might water down the existing 'real' population (I know I'd quit for THF or something) and then you have the R99 situation where nobody logs in because the server population is already so low and the experience essentially is logging on, putting on LFG for a while, then giving up.

The underlying point is that boxing isn't allowed, and it should stay that way - or scrap R99 and make it a blue "boxing allowed" server.

What if a person's original EQ experience from 1999-2001 included 2 boxing? I know I started 2 boxing pretty early since my brother played a cleric, which was necessary, and he didn't play at the same hours as me. So my classic EQ experience includes 2 boxing.

And for your poor rogue that leveled into the teens and ran into people 2 boxing who didn't want to group... What does he do now if he levels up to the teens and sees a bunch of people soloing who don't want to group? It's the same thing. You pretend like eliminating 2 boxing suddenly makes everyone want to group together.

I'd be all for a blue boxing allowed server. I bet blue boxing would kill blue off though, so I doubt the devs would go for such an idea.

[Swish]

I don't see much sense in any of what you're posting funnily. You're acting as if boxing would be healthy for the server... while those that don't box have to put up with either soloing or converting to boxing. What's one of live's downfalls for a lot of people? Mercs, I hated the mercs and the anti-social playstyles that developed because of them. I'd say it killed the community spirit of the servers in fact.

What if a person's original EQ experience from 1999-2001 included 2 boxing? I know I started 2 boxing pretty early since my brother played a cleric, which was necessary, and he didn't play at the same hours as me. So my classic EQ experience includes 2 boxing.

It wasn't until Kunark that 2-boxing really started to take off. I noticed the difference immediately, token tank running through a zone with cleric on auto-follow. All very handy for a group situation, except tells weren't replied to and the guy pulling the strings wanted to solo. Sure, play your way... but bear in mind a bunch of other classes would have loved to have joined in rather than struggle.

And for your poor rogue that leveled into the teens and ran into people 2 boxing who didn't want to group... What does he do now if he levels up to the teens and sees a bunch of people soloing who don't want to group? It's the same thing. You pretend like eliminating 2 boxing suddenly makes everyone want to group together.

The server has worked quite well, in that if there's a shortage of a class there tends to be a shift towards people starting alts? Tanks, clerics, the works. Less LFG time is always a bonus right? Except we all know that a tank and cleric is fairly slow going without any dps...so people will group. That's what the old era was about, grouping. That's what people arguably come to this server to do... meet people, group up, make friends and enjoy the experience over again.

Allow boxing, and everyone turns anti-social, class options are no longer realistic options unless you too are boxing. You pretend like mass boxing will still result in a healthy proportion of all classes being played.

I'd be all for a blue boxing allowed server. I bet blue boxing would kill blue off though, so I doubt the devs would go for such an idea.

I'd argue the opposite. Most newcomers who are playing solo (ie, not with the "wife", "brother" etc) will not head to a boxing server... because there's not much chance of levelling along with a boxer unless they know him/her already. Therefore your pool of boxing potential players is limited to those who are here already, and many of those (though not all) won't want to start at Day 0 and level characters from the beginning without twinked gear.

[Picked]

I see what your saying Swish. Makes a lot of sense. I'm happy with the way the server is now, and wouldn't want to get to a point where I rely on boxing. It's stressful. I play to enjoy the game. But I will stand by what I said earlier about playing on live and getting groups mostly with boxed tank/cleric. I would say that at least half the groups I was in had a boxed character for either group essentials or even just buffs outside the group.

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Picked [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I see what your saying Swish. Makes a lot of sense. I'm happy with the way the server is now, and wouldn't want to get to a point where I rely on boxing. It's stressful. I play to enjoy the game. But I will stand by what I said earlier about playing on live and getting groups mostly with boxed tank/cleric. I would say that at least half the groups I was in had a boxed character for either group essentials or even just buffs outside the group.

If you find boxing stressful, then you don't have to. I don't think anyone is for a rule where everyone must box. And certainly it's not as if you are penalized for not boxing. In fact, you benefit from that. As you said, half the groups you got on live was with a boxed tank/cleric, which was very common. I suspect we'd have a lot more groups here if boxing was allowed.

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't see much sense in any of what you're posting funnily. You're acting as if boxing would be healthy for the server... while those that don't box have to put up with either soloing or converting to boxing. What's one of live's downfalls for a lot of people? Mercs, I hated the mercs and the anti-social playstyles that developed because of them. I'd say it killed the community spirit of the servers in fact.

If you didn't understand the argument I was making, just say so. No need to try and refute the argument with irrelevant counterarguments. You still don't seem to understand, so I'll try to rephrase it. What I'm saying is that the 2 boxers (who don't group) you see running around on servers that allow it are likely the same people who solo on P99. Some people like being self sufficient. Allowing 2 boxing doesn't suddenly turn someone who likes to group and interact with people into someone who likes to do things on their own.

It wasn't until Kunark that 2-boxing really started to take off. I noticed the difference immediately, token tank running through a zone with cleric on auto-follow. All very handy for a group situation, except tells weren't replied to and the guy pulling the strings wanted to solo. Sure, play your way... but bear in mind a bunch of other classes would have loved to have joined in rather than struggle.

Again, does it really bother someone more to see a 2 boxer grinding xp and not allowing them to join vs. a soloer grinding xp and not allowing them to join? I'd think not, as the result is the same.

The server has worked quite well, in that if there's a shortage of a class there tends to be a shift towards people starting alts? Tanks, clerics, the works. Less LFG time is always a bonus right? Except we all know that a tank and cleric is fairly slow going without any dps...so people will group. That's what the old era was about, grouping. That's what people arguably come to this server to do... meet people, group up, make friends and enjoy the experience over again.

That's your experience. I've not had good luck in finding decent groups back when I was grinding to 60. Too many times they'd want the shaman to handle buffs, slows, and heals since they couldn't find an enc or cleric. A boxed enc just for buffs would have been amazing in those situations, and probably would have held some groups together when instead they broke apart.

Allow boxing, and everyone turns anti-social, class options are no longer realistic options unless you too are boxing. You pretend like mass boxing will still result in a healthy proportion of all classes being played.

This is just plain bizarre. People don't change who they are based on how many everquest characters they play. If they like grouping, they'll probably continue to group whether they're playing 1 or 2 characters. And it's not like on a boxing server, suddenly have 90% of the population being monks and shaman.

I'd argue the opposite. Most newcomers who are playing solo (ie, not with the "wife", "brother" etc) will not head to a boxing server... because there's not much chance of levelling along with a boxer unless they know him/her already. Therefore your pool of boxing potential players is limited to those who are here already, and many of those (though not all) won't want to start at Day 0 and level characters from the beginning without twinked gear.

If I was playing solo, I'd certainly go to a boxing server over a non boxing server. It allows you to enjoy more of the content. What makes you think boxers don't ever group together? Back on live, very early I met another person who boxed a war/enc and I boxed a war/cler. Not the most efficient group, but we grouped together. And what exactly is your argument regarding twinked gear here? That whole last sentence is rather incoherent.