ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[wts]

You're right it's holahouze who supports the unlawful murder of our noble Thorne! Let's hear his response to these charges!

[holahouze]

Originally Posted by wts [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're right it's holahouze who supports the unlawful murder of our noble Thorne! Let's hear his response to these charges!

Ha! Was just getting ready to. But first re: your other comments -- Thanks for sharing. I am of your father's age. I'm glad he made it back and thanks to both of your for your service.

Re: Last Kingdom, Battle scenes and strategy are key elements to story. Of course, the BBC doesn't have the budget to put a lot into it, so you may be disappointed in show scenes. if you read book, let me know what you think. i will do likewise.

Re: Thorne. Want to be careful to stay on show plot. For e.g., Throne didn't assassinate Jon because he was leading a wilding army south. I agree with you that Martin does a good job of writing multi-faceted characters, but show Thorne is showrunner invention. And, I agree that battle at Castle Black made Thorne appear brave and competent, even heroic.

Elsewise, i view Thorne this way. He hated Jon from his first day at the Wall. Why? Because he was on the losing side during the rebellion? Ned Stark certainly didn't send Thorne to the Wal, and what does Jon, a bastard, have to do with that anyway? He never attempted to get to know Jon. He never gave Jon an ounce of credit, nor respect. He hates Jon so much, he can't accept Jon's knowledge. He wants to execute Jon when he returns from his time with the wildings, and failing that, he sent him to Craster's with hopes he wouldn't return. He was Janos Slynt's man. He fails to accept or understand the gravity of their situation after Hardhomme (best scene ever IMO). He's simply on the wrong side of nearly every issue he's involved in, and I fail to see how fragging Jon makes him noble or true to his NW vows.

Here's my half-assed guess of happens next at Wall. Thorne tries to pin Jon's assassination on the wildings.

[holahouze]

Originally Posted by wts [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're right it's holahouze who supports the unlawful murder of our noble Thorne! Let's hear his response to these charges!

P.S., Bryndenbfish does some detailed ASOIAF battle/military strategies on his site. Too deep for me, but you might enjoy. Google it up.

[wts]

Originally Posted by holahouze [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Google it up.

Will do thanks. From the Night's Watch vow:

I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post.

Attacking Ramsey at Winterfell is an attempt to win glory. Winterfell is not Jon's post. The Wall is. He broke his vows.

[holahouze]

Originally Posted by wts [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Will do thanks. From the Night's Watch vow:

I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post.

Attacking Ramsey at Winterfell is an attempt to win glory. Winterfell is not Jon's post. The Wall is. He broke his vows.

I don't possess a lot of "walking around" memory of details, so I'll have to go back at some point and re-watch or search. But, my memory is, Jon was not assassinated because he was heading to Winterfell in the show. No pink letter in the show. I understood Thorne and his buddies killing Jon because he'd allied with Wildings.

Conversely, in-book, Aliser Thorne wasn't present when Jon was assassinated.

I would argue, in-show, that Jon was upholding NW vows. Getting those wildings south of wall did two things to "guard the realms of men". 1) increased manpower to fight Others, and 2) reduced the Others potential forces. Again, I thought the Hardhome scene was fabulous. Truly conveyed stakes/risk that neither show or book had to that point.

The other aspect of Jon's assassination is, why? That was Thorne's only available course of action? That could be seen as an act of treason itself.

I recall you being on #teamGhost. I don't think you can be #teamGhost and a charter member of Aliser Thorne fan club. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[AzzarTheGod]

Originally Posted by holahouze [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I recall you being on #teamGhost. I don't think you can be #teamGhost and a charter member of Aliser Thorne fan club. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sure he can. Jon can choose to agree to disagree with Alliser Thorne over his interpretation of the vows and his duty, and then they can part ways. Alliser Thorne remains at the Wall as commander, and Jon goes on his campaign. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[xKoopa]

Originally Posted by wts [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Will do thanks. From the Night's Watch vow:

I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post.

Attacking Ramsey at Winterfell is an attempt to win glory. Winterfell is not Jon's post. The Wall is. He broke his vows.

Not sure if its been mentioned (GoT has been theory crafted so much), but if jon died and was revived, would he be released from his vows? That would let him go south and etc honorably

[Sidelle]

Originally Posted by xKoopa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not sure if its been mentioned (GoT has been theory crafted so much), but if jon died and was revived, would he be released from his vows? That would let him go south and etc honorably

Yes. Definitely released! And Ghost better be by his side again. I don't give a shit how expensive CGI is. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[wts]

Originally Posted by holahouze [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My memory is, Jon was not assassinated because he was heading to Winterfell in the show. No pink letter in the show. I understood Thorne and his buddies killing Jon because he'd allied with Wildings.

I recall you being on #teamGhost. I don't think you can be #teamGhost and a charter member of Aliser Thorne fan club. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Haha I'll have to watch the episode again. Just because I think Thorne's actions were justified doesn't mean Ghost has to go hungry!

[holahouze]

Originally Posted by wts [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Haha I'll have to watch the episode again. Just because I think Thorne's actions were justified doesn't mean Ghost has to go hungry!

Really? The showrunners turn your guy into an insurrection-leading, savior-killing, a-hole -- I would have expected the Thorne fan club to have their shorts in a bunch over this. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seriously, I'm well adjusted to Jon's death. Doesn't mean I'm ok with guy(s) who did it, but I knew it was coming and was necessary. I don't know what's going to happen when he comes back. I'm open to your ideas. But, I struggle with notion that Jon and Aliser are going to just let bygones be bygones and go their separate ways.

Does the fan club give out "Aliser for 999th LC" buttons? I want one. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]