Rotations =/= handouts

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pretty sure this is a WoW term. Isn't it?

No.

[Kope]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pretty sure this is a WoW term. Isn't it?

No, it's either an EQ originating term or possibly UO. EQ used it heavily though, at least the PvP servers did...

[Rhambuk]

Originally Posted by Sarius [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not in BDA, but I am pretty heavily against leap-frogging. If a guild, regardless of which guild, is about to engage Gore near the tunnel and another guilds bard grabs her to pull to FV for a raid that is not yet even in zone, that is fucked up.

That is p99 and why so many of us have quit over the years.

With a little more gm intervention the server pop would be a solid 5-800 players more.

which a lot of you would freak out at the thought of having more "competition" but remember classic servers with 2500 on a weeknight during kunark. Cities had citizens....

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only thing I don't really understand about the plan for any possible rotation is how do you determine which guilds get a spot? how many spots? the most desirable spot? etc...

In velious it is a lot easier to weed out the guilds that can't do certain content...in kunark and classic, a guild of moderately well geared 20 people or less that know how to play EQ can take out most 32k dragons.

Does that mean that every guild that fields a semi-reasonable force will get a shot at the mob? What is the formula for determining it?

There are many "capable" but up until now way too casual guilds to get in on the raid game...if there are rotations they would probably be looking to move into that area of p99 that they have been avoiding so far.

I'm curious to see how you can fairly handle situations like that if p99 moves into a rotation agreement for most kunark mobs.

this is why any kind of rotation system sucks.

mobilization. be able to do it, or wait till the content is obsolete. but, i do think a courtesy rule should be made. If a competing guild has managed to mobilize, and your guild got the previous kill, they get 20 minutes. This means even a casual guild can get a shot, on anything, as long as they are willing to commit to mobilize.

Willing to commit to mobilize needs to be a sine qua non. Rotations eliminate a critical part of the rush of classic eq.

Plus, you know who else liked rotations? Hitler.

And yes, I'll keep repeating that idea. It's all I got.

[drktmplr12]

To Mr. Turp:

You have contributed nothing to this thread except your asinine perception of what Classic EQ was about 15 years ago and what you think this server is about.

I have news:


























No one cares.

Everyone is here to be part of a community. The root word: commune.

A commune is an intentional community of people living together, sharing common interests, property, possessions, resources, and, in some communes, work and income. In addition to the communal economy, consensus decision-making, non-hierarchical structures and ecological living have become important core principles for many communes.

You are not contributing by belittling other members of the community. People like you make the community toxic.

That is all.

[Castigate]

Originally Posted by lecompte [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So this is my first post on any thread related to the recent server activity, so bear with me: There seems to be a lot of people saying things like changes to the raid seen are a nicety and/or optional and that TMO/FE/WhoTheFuckEver is WILLING to talk about changes... The impression I get from Rogean posts are there is no willing, there is no option; the sword of Damocles hangs overhead -- save your pixels. Move the conversation along.

This is exactly what people seem to be trying to forget in all of this. I see plenty of people saying that the current/former rules are the rules we should end up sticking with. I also see a lot of bargaining over what essentially is the minimum we can do to make him happy so that Velious has all the toys we want to play with.

For the very slow who don't truly understand what's at stake in these conversations, get this through your heads already please.

ROGEAN DOESN'T GIVE A FUCK IF IT WOULD KILL THE SERVER, he will release Velious minus raid mobs if we don't actually try to improve things. I mean really try, not this petty fighting over what is/was/could be a monopoly, duopoly, or on the other end socialized pixels. Stop thinking things could go back to the way they were, because if they do I would guess Rogean would be more likely to shut the whole project down than let you continue doing what has been done.

Honestly when TMO comes off suspension I would like to see 2 weeks of no raid content at all on this server, hell start it now. People need to step back and get a little bit of perspective on this shit rather than continuing to pretend it will go away if they ignore it.

Personally I'm a fan of using decay models for how long guilds must wait on different mobs, they dont even have to be the same for every mob and they essentially solve most arguments that come up. For the world dragons and generally agreed less contested mobs it could be 2h 1h 30m 15m 7m30s 3m45s 1m53s free. Sure most of those times beyond 15mins would never get used, but if an up and coming guild wanted a crack at a dragon, and was willing to put in the work, they'd often get a relatively low pressure engage. Now with mobs like VS and Trak this time could be much shorter, you could start the timer at 20 minutes instead of 2 hours and most of it would never get used, but if people did want shots, they could get them without drama if they were prepared. Yes this doesn't address poopsocking, but honestly 1 tracker with 49 camped right next to the mob is not that much different than 50 trackers in my mind, I suppose its 1-5 minutes different depending on your guilds mobilization. At very least for Gods and world dragons you can't address one without the other.

This is just one idea, and I don't believe on its own it would be enough. It could be relatively easily tracked on the raid board by adding a few columns though.

What really needs to be protected here is the ability for anyone to fight a raid mob. During any given cycle at least 1 of Tal/Gore? Naggy, Vox, Maestro(yes players would care), and maybe draco should be left for actual pick up raids. I'm not saying big guilds shouldn't be allowed to attend these either, but they should make it their priority to help out newer players and just have fun. I feel something like this would make the community better in the long run.

Call me a carebear or idiot or whatever, but everyone here needs to realize that regardless of the decision made, it won't automatically save your Velious toys, you need to actually start caring about each other and trying to patch up your old hatred to do that.

[Turp_SmokinPurp]

Originally Posted by drktmplr12 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No one cares.
People like you make the community toxic.

People like you make people like me turn toxic.
I have helped plenty of people in game.
Never put grief on anyone.
But when they are gonna call a generalized group of people (that includes me) out in the OP for playing a game I am going to respond to them as I wish.
So it is ok for them to do kinda the opposite of belittle and "Zerg" me but if I belittle them back its all bad?

Originally Posted by drktmplr12 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have contributed nothing to this thread except your asinine perception of what you think this server is about.

LOL really?
What have you contributed? I do not contribute to forum questing sorry.
The original thread post is exactly what you describe here. An asinine perception of how the OP sees the server. I just see it different.
So what?
No one cares

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This guy is obviously a coat tail rider supreme.

Lol this guy is a proven forum warrior.
Whose coat tail am I on?...

[Castigate]

My timing in posting that was very awkward...
[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by Castigate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is exactly what people seem to be trying to forget in all of this. I see plenty of people saying that the current/former rules are the rules we should end up sticking with. I also see a lot of bargaining over what essentially is the minimum we can do to make him happy so that Velious has all the toys we want to play with.

For the very slow who don't truly understand what's at stake in these conversations, get this through your heads already please.

ROGEAN DOESN'T GIVE A FUCK IF IT WOULD KILL THE SERVER, he will release Velious minus raid mobs if we don't actually try to improve things. I mean really try, not this petty fighting over what is/was/could be a monopoly, duopoly, or on the other end socialized pixels. Stop thinking things could go back to the way they were, because if they do I would guess Rogean would be more likely to shut the whole project down than let you continue doing what has been done.

Honestly when TMO comes off suspension I would like to see 2 weeks of no raid content at all on this server, hell start it now. People need to step back and get a little bit of perspective on this shit rather than continuing to pretend it will go away if they ignore it.

Personally I'm a fan of using decay models for how long guilds must wait on different mobs, they dont even have to be the same for every mob and they essentially solve most arguments that come up. For the world dragons and generally agreed less contested mobs it could be 2h 1h 30m 15m 7m30s 3m45s 1m53s free. Sure most of those times beyond 15mins would never get used, but if an up and coming guild wanted a crack at a dragon, and was willing to put in the work, they'd often get a relatively low pressure engage. Now with mobs like VS and Trak this time could be much shorter, you could start the timer at 20 minutes instead of 2 hours and most of it would never get used, but if people did want shots, they could get them without drama if they were prepared. Yes this doesn't address poopsocking, but honestly 1 tracker with 49 camped right next to the mob is not that much different than 50 trackers in my mind, I suppose its 1-5 minutes different depending on your guilds mobilization. At very least for Gods and world dragons you can't address one without the other.

This is just one idea, and I don't believe on its own it would be enough. It could be relatively easily tracked on the raid board by adding a few columns though.

What really needs to be protected here is the ability for anyone to fight a raid mob. During any given cycle at least 1 of Tal/Gore? Naggy, Vox, Maestro(yes players would care), and maybe draco should be left for actual pick up raids. I'm not saying big guilds shouldn't be allowed to attend these either, but they should make it their priority to help out newer players and just have fun. I feel something like this would make the community better in the long run.

Call me a carebear or idiot or whatever, but everyone here needs to realize that regardless of the decision made, it won't automatically save your Velious toys, you need to actually start caring about each other and trying to patch up your old hatred to do that.

I like the cut of your jib.

Part of what I consider necessary, is LOW CS TIME. Ain't no one got time to be babtsitting a 15 year old elf simulator.

So we need EZ rules.

20-40 minute window for clean first kill attempt, if you can muster and execute. If other guild who got last kill is ready, they have to wait.

In other words, every spawn has a 20 minute no-touch period, if >1 guild in zone (set number for how many counts for a guild to be counted in zone, I'm a theoretician not a raid leader dammit). Whoever got last kill has tio give any and all competition to get a clean shot. After 20-40 minutes business as usual.

If a guild wants a kill, they can get a kill. They just have to be able to show up, and then execute.