Game Mechanics: Rogue hide

[Ele]

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....o/dCznFZ2jIQwJ

Okay, never played a rogue before, nor a dark elf, so a few questions
>here:
>
>- if I succeed at sneaking ('as quiet as a cat stalking it's prey'
>instead of 'quiet as a herd of running elephants') does that mean nothing
>can see me?

Things can see you. They will not however, go aggro on you if you are
behind them. A successful sneak + hide together will give you Rogue
invisibility, which works on both living and unliving things at the same
time.

>- does 'hide' ever go up in skill or is there always going to be a chance
>of it failing at the wrong time?

Hide does go up eventually. Remember that it's a racial skill for dark
elves, and starts at a skill level of 50 or so, higher than possible to
attain at level 1. Past 100 skill, you'll never fail to hide. Same with
sneak. There are mobs that can see invis (Well, more like X-ray vision,
considering you're not suppose to be in plain sight), or have a chance
of being spawned able to see you depending on your level (Though you'll
mainly have to worry about that 50+).

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....o/mGUVY0rouRoJ

Kobolds in Sol B apparently see through Invis. My rogue can go anywhere
in the kobold areas of Sol B without detection, including the front arcs. I
can't verify that kobolds see through invis, but when I claimed they didn't
(based on my rogue's experiences) I was plastered here so I assume they do.
8)

That's the rub. Some stuff is "born" seeing invisible. Hide may or may
not work on them. Kobolds in Sol B do NOT see through invis by
default, but many of 'em have a friendly neighborhood shaman come
by and cast See Invisible on them. That spell sees through everything.
If you're lucky and can stay out of the front arc you can still sneak,
however, but even monks can do that.
It's just like the frogs in Guk. None of 'em are spawned seeing
invisible except some of the named (frenzied, assassin, etc), but many
times if you happen to be near, for instance, an Urd Ghoul Wizard
you'll see one of his buffs being See Invisible. And he'll cast it
on all his friends nearby, too.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....s/WpqJkLVGAq4J

The only way I know of to be simultaneously invis to both
regular and undead mobs is to be a Rogue using Hide/Sneak.

Guide to Getting Mask of Deception
https://web.archive.org/web/20020812...picID=93.topic

The only thing on the way you should run into that can see through your hide/sneak is the large and giant heart spiders.

there will be ghouls here, so don't jump out of the water unless you have a way by them (itu or sneak/hide).

At the end of this hall is the spider/bat room. The spiders and bats can't see thru my invis but it is unknown to me if it is level based, if you hug the left wall and move quick thou they won't see you. Now you are in another hall, head down it aways and once you start turning hug the right wall. To your left you will see a room full of about 5 greater ice boned skeletons. Hugging the right wall they won't see you but they don't see my sneak/hide.

Now be very careful, if there isn't a group at the camp because the assassin can see thru rogue hide (although sneak will work on him as long as you are behind him of course).

[Scrubosaur]

Maybe part of the problem on p99 are mobs casting see invis on each other. In classic EQ, I am pretty sure that mobs didn't have access to a full spell book which would explain why less mobs saw through hide/sneak. If mobs that cast see invis did not have that in their spell book then that would limit the mobs that see through hide/sneak to those that are innately spawned with the ability.

[derpcake]

I did lots of CRs from shroom king using sneak / hide as a 56 rogue, in kunark.

Drag corpses to bridge below beetle area, use lower zone out, zone in again, drag corpses up and bag to ZI.

A very small percentage of mobs saw through sneak hide.

http://kyros.info/Rogue/Ragebringer.php

"The undead in the Plane of Hate will see through sneak/hide and normal invis, but other than that, you should be able to reach the book without too much trouble."

Makese sense that sebilis would be pretty safe to navigate, slightly less dangerous then PoH, which was low risk by itself.

Yay solo book fetching!

[derpcake]

This was while with illuminati sancti on xegony, before velious was around. I quit not too long after velious, so its not an AA issue or so.

Don't have a rogue, nor ambitions to make one, just bothers me a lot that this is left as is. Not classic.

[Rhambuk]

Rogue Strike!
Rogue Strike!
Rogue Strike!

[Ele]

So many threads and back-and-forth from so many people what exactly is the point of contention anymore?

Is it too many mobs casting "see invis" on themselves and their nearby friends?

Is it that the buff "see invis" can see through rogue sneak/hide?

Is it that only certain mobs (see ex. Safehouse list) should spawn seeing through rogue sneak/hide and nothing else even with "see invis" buff?

[Dullah]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So many threads and back-and-forth from so many people what exactly is the point of contention anymore?

Fixing a class that doesn't work properly, especially on a pvp server where rogues could use mobs to their advantage being the only ones able to hide behind them without risk of aggro.

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is it too many mobs casting "see invis" on themselves and their nearby friends?

No, that doesn't happen on p99. Its just mobs flagged see invis that also see hide which should be different.

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is it that the buff "see invis" can see through rogue sneak/hide?

No, casted see invis isn't the issue on p99, they see from the second they spawn.

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is it that only certain mobs (see ex. Safehouse list) should spawn seeing through rogue sneak/hide and nothing else even with "see invis" buff?

Very few mobs should be able to see 60 rogues, and mobs shouldn't even cast see invis. Its a misconception that mobs that see invis somehow had it cast on them. Its just a flag like anything else.

[Shiftin]

There's universal agreement that the run speed is still jacked up, and there are various ways that "too many things seeing hide" can be addressed.

[Scrubosaur]

We have shown the proof. Can we get rogues classic?!

[Scrubosaur]

Fixed for the next patch?