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[Patriam1066]

I bought my daughter a Mini Cooper when she turned 16. True story

[Horza]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Quite a stretch. There are 50+ million police interactions occurring every year. There are a handful of unjustified killings every year. We both agree that we want to get that number down to zero. What we disagree on, is how serious of a threat to the public this issue is

And no, I want you to be able to re-allocate as much money from the police towards social services in you area as your heart desires. It can be any amount, and it can go towards any other purpose. Just keep it in your area. That's what I want. And you aren't going to change my mind on what I want, so let's agree to disagree

That sure is a lot of sentences to say you don't think police brutality is an issue whatsoever.

[unsunghero]

BTW, to demonstrate that I have the same goal but the exact opposite idea about how to get it, I think we need MORE resources for better training of police

I'm using the word resources because I'm not going to be so black and white minded to claim that just throwing them more money is some kind of miracle cure. Resources can mean attention, supervision, training, auditing, all sorts of non-monetary measures

I think the issues come from a number of reasons including:

People that should not be police officers are being hired as police officers. This is an issue with whoever is doing the hiring

People that should be police officers not being properly trained on how to be an officer that does not unjustifiably use lethal force. This is an issue with whoever trained that particular officer

Some cops may have some secret deep-seeded racism. Once again, if it is not spotted, then this is an issue with the hiring process, or monitoring of police practices

MORE resources, goes towards fixing all these things

[Byue]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Quite a stretch. There are 50+ million police interactions occurring every year. There are a handful of unjustified killings every year. We both agree that we want to get that number down to zero. What we disagree on, is how serious of a threat to the public this issue is

And no, I want you to be able to re-allocate as much money from the police towards social services in you area as your heart desires. It can be any amount, and it can go towards any other purpose. Just keep it in your area. That's what I want. And you aren't going to change my mind on what I want, so let's agree to disagree

Police body cam footage shows officers shooting 13-year-old Utah boy with autism

So, we both want that number to zero or... just me?
Because sending police officers in situations where they are not qualified and trained is what a sensible citizen like you want.
it is not dangerous for the cops, nor for the public. (amirite?)


There are literally millions of people leaving and entering the country every year, a handful do so illegally, What we disagree on, is how serious of a threat to the public this issue is
.

There have been 7,194 days since 9/11. No other buildings were destroyed. (In America) Trillion dollars war of (or on?) terror. just now leaving Afghanistan and What we disagree on, is how serious of a threat to the public this issue is.


There is a lot of available books and toys.
Lately, there have been a fixation on mr. potato head and dr. seuss books and What we disagree on, is how serious of a threat to the public this issue is.

I'm sorry you make it easy.
See when they told you school was useless, they lied.
You very obviously could use a degree, especially a high school degree.

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the issues come from a number of reasons including:

People that should not be police officers are being hired as police officers. This is an issue with whoever is doing the hiring


Some cops may have some secret deep-seeded racism. Once again, if it is not spotted, then this is an issue with the hiring process, or monitoring of police practices

Could the issue be... *GASP* that since they send police to place where police aren't needed, they have to hire more police than needed and use these shitty practices to save time because how can you keep track of such a large force?
Why send a police officer to a house where the problem is a troubled person with autism? Wouldn't a social worker do a better job since, you know, they are trained for that and it is literally their job? Why do you insist on sending armed people to solve all the conflict?

We are back to the you pinning too many images on posts and not seeing the problem.
Back to you threatening to do it again.

We're building the world we fucking live in.
you want... more cops?
You like the idea of a police state?
I thought republicans were all about freedom, america, gun rights and doing what you want because freedom!

sure does look like you like the idea of policing OTHER people though.
And you don't even like cops that much since january 6 was a normal tourist attraction for you.
Just a regular day at the capitol.

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by Byue [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Police body cam footage shows officers shooting 13-year-old Utah boy with autism

So, we both want that number to zero or... just me?
Because sending police officers in situations where they are not qualified and trained is what a sensible citizen like you want.
it is not dangerous for the cops, nor for the public. (amirite?)


There are literally millions of people leaving and entering the country every year, a handful do so illegally, What we disagree on, is how serious of a threat to the public this issue is
.

There have been 7,194 days since 9/11. No other buildings were destroyed. (In America) Trillion dollars war of (or on?) terror. just now leaving Afghanistan and What we disagree on, is how serious of a threat to the public this issue is.


There is a lot of available books and toys.
Lately, there have been a fixation on mr. potato head and dr. seuss books and What we disagree on, is how serious of a threat to the public this issue is.

How many people died in 9/11? Wasn't it in the thousands? Has even close to that many died unjustifiably to police? Weird analogy dude

Yes, we do accept MILLIONS of legal immigrants. I'm glad you pointed that out. In fact, we've accepted MORE legal immigrants than any country in the world, including yours. We're better at accepting legal immigrants than you, and we always will be. I have nothing against legal immigration. I bet we do disagree on the illegal immigration seriousness, however

And I do think trying to cancel mr potato head is ridiculous, thanks for agreeing with me on that one

"Because sending police officers in situations where they are not qualified and trained is what a sensible citizen like you want"

-- were you being serious with this or was it sarcasm? Because this is exactly what I don't want. And if you don't want it either, then we are in agreement

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by Byue [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Police body cam footage shows officers shooting 13-year-old Utah boy with autism

So, we both want that number to zero or... just me?
Because sending police officers in situations where they are not qualified and trained is what a sensible citizen like you want.
it is not dangerous for the cops, nor for the public. (amirite?)


There are literally millions of people leaving and entering the country every year, a handful do so illegally, What we disagree on, is how serious of a threat to the public this issue is
.

There have been 7,194 days since 9/11. No other buildings were destroyed. (In America) Trillion dollars war of (or on?) terror. just now leaving Afghanistan and What we disagree on, is how serious of a threat to the public this issue is.


There is a lot of available books and toys.
Lately, there have been a fixation on mr. potato head and dr. seuss books and What we disagree on, is how serious of a threat to the public this issue is.

I'm sorry you make it easy.
See when they told you school was useless, they lied.
You very obviously could use a degree, especially a high school degree.





Could the issue be... *GASP* that since they send police to place where police aren't needed, they have to hire more police than needed and use these shitty practices to save time because how can you keep track of such a large force?
Why send a police officer to a house where the problem is a troubled person with autism? Wouldn't a social worker do a better job since, you know, they are trained for that and it is literally their job? Why do you insist on sending armed people to solve all the conflict?

I am a social worker and no, we are not allowed to go hands on with an escalated child. That is a huge liability risk for an agency. We used to be able to, having to be properly restraint trained first obviously. When is a kid, I actually helped in the restraint training. It was my first job in mental health, I think I was about 8 at the time. I volunteered to help social workers practice their restraints. I was told to try to wiggle out. I found the whole thing fun

Then when I started working in behavioral health, that practice went away. A lot of mental health agencies don't want to take on the legal liability of restraining a kid, involving all the things that can go wrong with that, including that child dying (which can happen without guns involved as well)

But yes, if you want to re-train us to be able to restrain kids, I would have very little issue with that. I think it would suck because it would mean being bruised up and bit sometimes, which is always going to suck no matter who you are. The reason I know is because we go into a lot of residential treatment facilities and behavioral schools where the staff ARE able to go hands on, and that kinda stuff happens

[Danth]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

MORE resources, goes towards fixing all these things

Maybe, maybe not. Some of it wouldn't take so much as a dollar to change--got to change the mindset.

--Stop discriminating against hiring people who are too smart (this is true, many departments actually do this).
--Stop preferentially hiring people based on military experience. Being a good soldier does not necessarily translate to being a good LEO. Police are not an Occupying Army, and the public is not the Enemy.
--Reduce equipment to what's ordinary for the area. Police should not be heavily-armed commandos. Ordinary beat cops do not need military-style rifles in their cars and certainly do not need to be carrying ammunition or implements for use against their own citizenry, which would be outlawed on the field of battle.
--Walk back "officer safety" to where it was thirty years ago, and go back to needing actual justification to shoot beyond, "He scared me or might've been maybe reaching for something for a second."

Most of all: Accept it took us decades to get to this point, and chances are it'll take many years to fix it too. Even once fixed, public trust has eroded enough that it'll take years to recover. This is NOT going to go away overnight. This is going to be the largest stumbling block prohibiting real change because the public expects instant results and when that doesn't materialize tends to lose interest in favor of the next outrage-du-jour.

Danth

[unsunghero]

But also, in regards to the escalated autistic child, I believe it shouldn't REQUIRE a social worker to prevent that child from being shot

I think that a properly trained police officer can also be taught the simple understanding that no matter which direction the situation goes with a small escalated autistic child who is unarmed, there is absolutely no reason to pull out a gun. I think it is possible to train that

And there is mental health training for police. For our police nowadays it's called CIS although I forget what it is an acronym for, crisis intervention something. It's basically a division of police that has been trained in mental health and what it looks like who are requested to go out on mental health calls. This special division of police is who does the mental health pick ups, which are people in the community who have been petitioned, or in CA or other states it's called 51/50'd or Baker Act'ed, to be evaluated against their will at a hospital due to serious credible immediate threats to self/others PLUS mental illness symptoms

[Byue]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How many people died in 9/11? Wasn't it in the thousands? Has even close to that many died unjustifiably to police? Weird analogy dude

Yes, we do accept MILLIONS of legal immigrants. I'm glad you pointed that out. In fact, we've accepted MORE legal immigrants than any country in the world, including yours. We're better at accepting legal immigrants than you, and we always will be. I have nothing against legal immigration. I bet we do disagree on the illegal immigration seriousness, however

And I do think trying to cancel mr potato head is ridiculous, thanks for agreeing with me on that one

"Because sending police officers in situations where they are not qualified and trained is what a sensible citizen like you want"

-- were you being serious with this or was it sarcasm? Because this is exactly what I don't want. And if you don't want it either, then we are in agreement

You're not very smart dude.
Like not an idiot, but you're not very smart.

Let's unpack that shitty comeback.
9/11: 2,977 people were killed.

It is very difficult to compile data on this because police states tend to be opaque and the USA is very opaque with these statistics but n the first four months of 2021, 292 people died at the hand of the police. 2020: 1,021. 2019: 999.

So basically, just those three years is almost a 9/11 and what we disagree on is how serious of a threat to society this is but it seems like every 3 years you have a "never forget" event done by the hand of those who are serving and protecting you.

But there is no problem right?


About the immigration, it was probably lost on you because we've discussed it, you're really not that smart. (or you playing dumb, or you ignore that part)
50+ million interaction with the police.
Handful of killing.
You conclude there is no problem.

I merely said: millions of legal immigrants.
handful illegal immigrants.
Should yield same end result of this is not a tangible problem. (if you have integrity)
(especially once you realize that something like 95% of your illegal immigration are just people who came legally but never left)


My country is number six on the list of accepting immigrants.
We're a lot poorer than you, with a much smaller infrastructure and population density to absorb it. Plus we don't kick them out two years later so I think we do better but this is absolutely up for debate.


Oh I was not amde aware they cancelled potato head, since you can still buy it and since it's a toy, buying it is like, what you want from it and not much more else but more to the point, and you know what it is by now, it is that you mention that we disagree on the severity of the threat to the public.
I conclude that this is not a threat to the public, since there are other toys to buy.
(50 million interaction with the police, only a handful of killings is where I draw my inspiration to show you how little integrity you have)

And we'll finish with this beauty.

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"Because sending police officers in situations where they are not qualified and trained is what a sensible citizen like you want"

-- were you being serious with this or was it sarcasm? Because this is exactly what I don't want. And if you don't want it either, then we are in agreement

First, you mentioned you want to bring the number of people shot by the police to zero which I know is a lie, you don't care because I wrote this sentence you are wondering if it is sarcasm when you put yourself squarely against defunding the police and wanted more resources spent on police.
I merely linked one article about police shooting a 13 boy with autism 30 seconds after arriving on location and implying, "maybe sending a social worker would have been a better idea? and you didn't even bite because, let's be honest, we've discussed it a lot already, you're not that smart.

So, you want to send the police deal with mentally unstable people, be my guest and have the results we have even though you keep lying (because you have no fucking integrity) and pretend that you want the police shooting to drop to zero without changing anything about what is happening and that is some serious dumbfuckery.

I want to send qualified people to solve the problem society have.
You want to send armed douchebags who don't even have a college degree to fix everything.

And then wonder why it's not working because it never will.


P.S: bruv, obviously, police officers or not, nobody should be dumb enough to take out your weapon and shoot a 13 years old autistic boy less than 30 seconds after showing up on location. You're not fucking brave for saying this. But it happened. here is the caretaker of an autistic child getting shot because he is trying to take care of the autistic child

There is hundred pages of this shit.
but WHY DO YOU EVEN WANT TO SEND A POLICE OFFICER TO A HOUSE WHERE AN AUTISTIC BOY IS HAVING TROUBLE?
What's a fucking police officer going to fucking do my man?
Very smart people with degrees specializing in autism have trouble with autism, what's a police officer to fucking do man?


Don't you get the idea of a social worker going there, or a fucking psychologist or you know, someone fucking qualified.

Like I don't care, send in the fucking army if you feel like they could be useful but what in their fucking pedigree make you think they could be useful in this situation for fuck sake?

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by Byue [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're not very smart dude.
Like not an idiot, but you're not very smart.

Let's unpack that shitty comeback.
9/11: 2,977 people were killed.

It is very difficult to compile data on this because police states tend to be opaque and the USA is very opaque with these statistics but n the first four months of 2021, 292 people died at the hand of the police. 2020: 1,021. 2019: 999.

Christ, you fell right into the typical democrat logic trap of manipulating statistics

"Killed by police", let's consider who falls into this category. 5 cartel members in texas get in a shootout with a swat team being sent to a business they are strong armed robbing. The 5 cartel members die in the shootout, they are part of that statistic

This happened recently - A woman gets pulled over for speeding. She pulls out a gun and shoots the officer in the arm. The officer shoots her and she dies. She is a part of that statistic

In fact the number of people in that statistic who were legally and justifiably killed due to self-defense is something like 99%. That's why when the washington post mentioned the UNJUSTIFIED police killings in a year, it's like 19. Not 1,000

But yeah, 1,000 is a big number I agree

Be careful to not be manipulated by statistics bro

My country is number six on the list of accepting immigrants.
We're a lot poorer than you, with a much smaller infrastructure and population density to absorb it. Plus we don't kick them out two years later so I think we do better but this is absolutely up for debate.

Eh, you do pretty good but we better. Don't be jelly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I merely linked one article about police shooting a 13 boy with autism 30 seconds after arriving on location and implying, "maybe sending a social worker would have been a better idea? and you didn't even bite because, let's be honest, we've discussed it a lot already, you're not that smart.

So, you want to send the police deal with mentally unstable people, be my guest and have the results we have even though you keep lying (because you have no fucking integrity) and pretend that you want the police shooting to drop to zero without changing anything about what is happening and that is some serious dumbfuckery. everything.

Like I said, I have no problem being sent in lieu of police to an escalated autistic child's home who is unarmed, as long as my agency is willing to restraint train me and accept the legal liability

What I DO have a problem with, is going out on a full grown adult who is psychotic due to drugs or mental illness and escalated to the point of potential physical violence. Social workers are not magic. There is not a magic phrase I can do that will guarantee that this person de-escalates and no one gets hurt. We come unarmed, and we have been attacked before. We have had clients try to kill us. A few years ago a client who was extremely intoxicated on alcohol got an attempted murder charge for trying to stab a social worker at our agency. That social worker quit the next week. Not going to happen to me pal. The person doing the de-escalating needs to be equipped to prevent their own death, and that doesn't always mean using words