Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just because you repeat "you're wrong" ad nauseam doesn't make you right.
YOU HAVE LOST!

Precisely. Please stop doing that. I am providing evidence to back up my claims. You are the one simply saying "you are wrong" without evidence, and then insulting me.

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We've explained time and time again, to a degree we really shouldn't, why mage is preferable contributing to single target DPS over a shaman root rotting mobs. How can you not see that root rotting mobs in a 2 enchanter charm group is totally pointless?

And you have no evidence to prove why you think you are correct over me. In any situation where you can chain pull mobs, you can root/rot. This is fact, and will not change. Your preference is not relevant to how the game actually works.

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You conveniently ignored my parable about a wizard and bard quadding in a 6 man group. Why? Because you know it's insane for 2 people to be doing that in a group where 4 other people depend on them.

I ignored it because you are somehow trying to equate quadding to root/rotting. You do know you need more space to quad than root/rot, right? They aren't comparable, and most level 60 groups are probably going to be in dungeons, where space is tight.

If there was an area where you could do both, I would be interested to see the numbers. It could be efficient in some areas. Dragon Necropolis is one area where you could have your bard swarm kiting spiders while your group is directly under the area killing rats, but I haven't tested that.

[Gloomlord]

If a shaman wanted to root rot, why not join a group with a necromancer?

Why would 2 enchanters want a shaman in it root rotting irrelevant mobs? Why would they appreciate this, even if somehow shaman *DID* more damage than mage?

If you have a character at 60, you should know noone is going to want this. Are you going to tell us all, with a straight face, that this is what you'd do in 2 enchanter and 1 cleric group?

[Gloomlord]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is my rebuttal to your moronic suggestion about root rotting in a charm group.

"My preference"? Pretty sure that's nearly everyone in the game, you frothing madman.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is my rebuttal to your moronic suggestion about root rotting in a charm group.

"My preference"? Pretty sure that's nearly everyone in the game, you frothing madman.

And you have no data to back up that claim either lol.

"Most people prefer to root/rot in groups". See? I can make the claim too, and we are back to square one without data.

[Chortles Snortles]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Gloomlord]

Most people prefer, in a 6 man group, to efficiently down a mob one by one, with adds being negated by a puller splitting and quickly grabbing them before others spawn around it, or simply CCing them. So why would they like 2 idiots waltzing off to quad and destroy this efficiency?

And thus why would a 2 charm enchanter group, with a cleric to heal the charm pets and slip ups and stun, want a shaman who does not contribute to the speed of single target DPS and root rots irrelevant mobs?

They wouldn't, assuming they're sane.

How can you get out of this one?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Most people prefer, in a 6 man group, to efficiently down a mob one by one, with adds being negated by a puller splitting and quickly grabbing them before others spawn around it, or simply CCing them. So why would they like 2 idiots waltzing off to quad and destroy this efficiency?

And thus why would a 2 charm enchanter group, with a cleric to heal the charm pets and slip ups and stun, want a shaman who does not contribute to the speed of single target DPS and root rots irrelevant mobs?

They wouldn't, assuming they're sane.

How can you get out of this one?

Easy. Let's switch to pure experience, since you seem to be unable to provide any evidence to back up your claims.

From my experience of playing on this server for years, people don't care that much about DPS.

I have never seen a group gear check players, and groups often times form in sub-optimal configurations. This is easily losing 30+ DPS on a per group basis, which is the difference in DPS between a Mage and a Shaman without root rotting.

The reality is people will lose 30 DPS without thinking and not even notice. Groups also tend to break up when they wipe. The value in decreasing your groups chances of wiping tends to outweigh slightly faster kill speeds. This is because spawn timers are going to slow down your progress no matter what. You do not get an infinite stream of mobs at your disposal. A group may plan on fighting for 4 hours, but then disbands after 2 hours due to a wipe.

Please do not bring player skill into the discussion. I have seen the most skilled players in the game screw up. Nobody is perfect. It is a straw man to make the claim that I am talking about bad players in this scenario.

[Gloomlord]

You say they "don't care about DPS".

But even if this is true, why would they pick shaman over mage if they were going to have a 4 man group of friends exping to 60?

We also established that the people in question know what they're doing but have human limitations on stamina. Mage is an obvious choice over shaman.

Do I really need to provide "evidence" about the overwhelming majority of people not wanting 2 idiots in a 6 man group doing their own thing? Even a bad player can see how obtuse that is.

You've lost the argument. There's no getting out of this.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You say they "don't care about DPS".

But even if this is true, why would they pick shaman over mage if they were going to have a 4 man group of friends exping to 60?

We also established that the people in question know what they're doing but have human limitations on stamina. Mage is an obvious choice over shaman.

Do I really need to provide "evidence" about the overwhelming majority of people not wanting 2 idiots in a 6 man group doing their own thing? Even a bad player can see how obtuse that is.

You've lost the argument. There's no getting out of this.

Easy. A Shaman provides more safety and camp options, and the group won't notice the DPS loss. That is my experience from years of play. The optimal DPS threshold for group content is around 200 at level 60. The dimishing returns get too heavy at that point, and most group comps can hit 200 easy. You would need to try and make a really bad group comp to be well under 200.

[Gloomlord]

Right, so shaman can provide slightly more camp options...but as PlsNoBan has pointed out, that is so niche that shaman is still more irrelevant than mage if all they want is some extra DPS.

You've now switched from the root rotting argument, which you know is utterly flawed, to now saying that shaman "opens up more potential doors".

As I've said: this is a never-ending circle of insanity. You'll keep switching from one argument to another when one fails, and then go back to the same one when we've poked holes in that one. You deliberately frustrate your opponent, and then claim "SEE?! YOU'RE TROLLING!" when they tell you to piss off.

How do you not see you've lost the argument? I call your bluff.