Bin Laden's dead

[moklianne]

About 6 or 8 months ago, I saw an interview where a top CIA official was asked directly when the last credible evidence was found concerning Bin Laden's whereabouts. He said flat out, its been almost 2 years since they had a location or any real leads. He said the trail just went cold.

Here's my speculation (take it for that):

I personally feel that he was killed a few of years ago, but in order to purpetrate continuing wars in the middle east, they didn't say a thing. Remember, George W was in office. Since then, we have increased our forces in Afganistan.

Now, as a campaign promise, Obama said he would start pulling troops out of the middle east. He let the lie go on just long enough to get the troop buildups where he wanted them. Now he wants to start slowly pulling them out over the next few years. What better way to start this off than to show the world that we are winning the war on terror. What's a better symbol of that than killing Osama?

Besides the fact that he can use this during the upcoming campaign. I don't understand why people say Obama or George W is responsible for finding and killing him. I wonder if people actually realize how government works...the joint cheifs come in and say, "hey, we think we found osama bin laden, this is the plan we recommend." or "hey we need these resources, actions to find osama, do you approve or disapprove?"

Its the people on the ground, and those going up the military ranks that make the real difference.

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by Turtles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

here's a list of organizations and people that have argued against conspiracy theories behind the 9/11 attacks: the US National Institute of Standards

Perhaps you missed my earlier post. Just about every single person you cited as so called "evidence" is an arab hating, neocon Zionist who would love nothing more than for the US to invade every muslim country on earth for them. These are all war mongering propagandists and you claim they're actually credible.

- Stephen Cauffman, Jewish Neocon Zionist - point-man on the NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) cover-up of the WTC 7 controlled demolition. NIST continues to maintain that fire alone brought down WTC 7.

Originally Posted by Turtles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Popular Mechanics magazine

Benjamin Chertoff - Jewish Neocon Zionist, the first cousin of Michael Chertoff, wrote the 9/11 hit piece in Popular Mechanics debunking “9/11 conspiracy theories.”

Michael Chertoff - Jewish Neocon Zionist, dual citizen of US and Israel, Director of Homeland Security. Co-author of patriot act

Originally Posted by Turtles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the 9/11 Commission Report

Philip Zelikow (Jewish US-Israeli dual citizen) - wrote blatantly false 9/11 commission report

Originally Posted by Turtles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Noam Chomsky

After being cornered on this issue for the 1000th time, eventually Noam Chomsky said "it doesn't even matter if 9/11 was a staged event", it's on video tape, you can look it up yourself. Also, why are you naming only Jewish people like they would actually be unbiased and credible on this issue?

Originally Posted by Turtles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

MIT Engineering Professor Thomas Eagar

And guess what, here's an MIT engineer Jeff King saying the exact opposite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCLHL5iToJ8

Originally Posted by Turtles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You cannot get thousands of people in on a conspiracy theory as horrific as mass murder without it leaking out over the course of a decade. It is not logical.

It already has leaked out. For some reason you seem to think something can only be true if every neocon Zionist on earth tells you it's a fact.

[Lazortag]

<Giegue> I just had tandoori chicken and nachos
<wehrmacht> I'm raping noobs in the bin laden thread

Wehrmacht, you are completely full of shit. You found one or two jews (not even zionists) who works with a particular organizatino so you assumed that the entire organization must no longer be credible. Seriously, you think that popular mechanics has no credibility because a few people who might be biased work with them? What I find more hilarious than anything is the circular logic in your post; for example:

- Stephen Cauffman, Jewish Neocon Zionist - point-man on the NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) cover-up of the WTC 7 controlled demolition. NIST continues to maintain that fire alone brought down WTC 7.

Let me get this straight. One of the premises of your argument is that tower 7 was brought down by a controlled demolition. There is a source which claims the opposite. So to prove that this source is not credible, you are using the fact that one of the people associated with it believes that tower 7 was not brought down by a controlled demolition.

[Lazortag]

Edit: Sorry, the first part is supposed to say:

[Giegue] I just had tandoori chicken and nachos
[Wehrmacht] I'm raping noobs in the bin laden thread

This was from the #p99 IRC channel where wehrmacht was bragging about this thread, and I was bragging about my lunch, but the forums don't register "<" ">" tags very well.

[Turtles]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And guess what, here's an MIT engineer Jeff King saying the exact opposite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCLHL5iToJ8

By the way, I just re-read and felt the need to comment on this. Jeff King is not an "MIT engineer". He's a family physician that graduated from MIT 35+ years ago. Thomas Eagar graduated with an S.B. and a Sc.D from MIT. He's served as a professor and department head at MIT for decades. He's worked on the National Research Council and done research for the US Congress and US Department of Energy. He's taught a dozen graduate and professional level engineering courses. He's one of the most accomplished engineers in the world.

It's not point and counterpoint. It's like quoting J. Scott Armstrong (from Wharton) on a business proposal, then countering by quoting a guy that graduated from Wharton in the '70s and has been working as a police officer ever since.

[moklianne]

Originally Posted by Turtles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He posted first -- you've got to wait your turn.

And no, my opinion isn't based on disbelief over the concept of the media or the government lying to me. The government lies all the time. My opinion is based on a historical understanding of fact reporting and conspiracy theories. For a conspiracy theory to be effective, there have to be a very limited number of perpetrators. The more people "in on it", the more unlikely the conspiracy -- and the more likely it is for the conspiracy to be uncovered.

Outside of every major news network and every major political figure -- both Democrat and Republican -- here's a list of organizations and people that have argued against conspiracy theories behind the 9/11 attacks: the US National Institute of Standards and Technology, Popular Mechanics magazine, the 9/11 Commission Report, Noam Chomsky, MIT Engineering Professor Thomas Eagar, Bill Moyers, and most of the Civil Engineering department at BYU. That's what I uncovered in, oh, 5 minutes. I'm sure there are hundreds and hundreds more.

For there to be a conspiracy theory, all of these people would have to be in on it. There is not one legitimate, mainstream organization that a) is in a position to know, and b) has come out and supported the legitimacy of 9/11 conspiracy theories. You cannot get thousands of people in on a conspiracy theory as horrific as mass murder without it leaking out over the course of a decade. It is not logical.

Coast to Coast AM aired probably the best debate I have ever heard on the subject:

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2010/08/21

[Turtles]

Haha Jesus man -- are you seriously that anti-Semitic? You really think they've got a massive conspiracy for global domination running? Do you even know any Jews? Most Jews I know are left-leaning hippies that would rather legalize marijuana than visit Israel. I honestly can't even take the argument seriously. You point to a dozen Jews and say "boom, conspiracy." You can do that with anything, anywhere, with any ethnicity.

[Turtles]

1 - Not rich.

2 - Still haven't mentioned my SAT scores, let alone smugly gloated over them.

3 - The aspie might want to be more careful in his judgments. Having two people claim different events is two sides of a story. It's a disagreement over the event in question. Having two people agree on what happened (planes meet towers) and who was responsible (Al Qaeda) = one story. The only difference is each side's view of the context, which is largely irrelevant.

[purist]

Originally Posted by Turtles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not two sides to a story. It's two interpretations of the same story.

Translation: "I'm going to take a popular idiom, duplicate it and substitute one word with its identical synonym, then sit back as if I have managed to prove some kind of point. "

The only thing you're proving is that taking $100,000+ in student oans for an undergrad in History at Cornell doesn't make you intelligent. And arguing on an Everquest emulator server after getting your fifth rejection-of-transfer letter from Harvard won't console your ego, 'cause you're getting put in your place by a bunch of state school grads.

[Turtles]

Haha, your attempts to get under my skin would be far more effective if you didn't take so many shots in the dark. First I'm rich, now I'm $100,000 in debt? Neither. History? Not my style. And Cornell is wrong, as is Harvard. You have to pick your spots. Your trolling is sloppy, sport.