World of Warcraft is the true spiritual successor to EverQuest.

[Wakanda]

Originally Posted by magnetaress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just palling around the gnomeragon newbie area... it's something to explore, like EQ was. And see. WoW got too far away from its roots.

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Anyway wows biggest problem are its players not the game itself. It's players dont want to play an MMO anymore.

That's one thing about WoW, and every other MMO I've played that wasn't EQ. You never actually feel like you're in the game. With EQ, even with it's terrible graphics (by today's standards, they were groundbreaking at the time), I always feel like I'm really in the environment. IDK if it's the camera angle, the slow pace, the fact that you're in environments that are inherently dangerous, and any nodding off or missteps could get you killed etc. But it really draws you in.

You aren't wrong about modern WoW players not wanting to play an MMO.

I play retail WoW on a roleplay server. It has areas of the game that are SUPER social, and players just congregate and hang out and chit chat for all hours of the night. It's one of my favorite things to do on WoW, and it reminds me of old school EQ, how you would just run into random groups of players standing around talking in Qeynos Hills and join in on the conversation. But whenever I do this, my younger friends who play WoW with me start stomping their feet and complaining about being bored and asking me why I haven't queue'd us for another dungeon.

Maybe classic MMOs will never appeal to a large audience again? IDK. I imagine a well done VR MMO would feel very much like EQ if done right however.

[Topgunben]

Originally Posted by Wakanda [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's one thing about WoW, and every other MMO I've played that wasn't EQ. You never actually feel like you're in the game. With EQ, even with it's terrible graphics (by today's standards, they were groundbreaking at the time), I always feel like I'm really in the environment. IDK if it's the camera angle, the slow pace, the fact that you're in environments that are inherently dangerous, and any nodding off or missteps could get you killed etc. But it really draws you in.

You aren't wrong about modern WoW players not wanting to play an MMO.

I play retail WoW on a roleplay server. It has areas of the game that are SUPER social, and players just congregate and hang out and chit chat for all hours of the night. It's one of my favorite things to do on WoW, and it reminds me of old school EQ, how you would just run into random groups of players standing around talking in Qeynos Hills and join in on the conversation. But whenever I do this, my younger friends who play WoW with me start stomping their feet and complaining about being bored and asking me why I haven't queue'd us for another dungeon.

Maybe classic MMOs will never appeal to a large audience again? IDK. I imagine a well done VR MMO would feel very much like EQ if done right however.

Do you think classic EQ promotes socializing because of camps and the slower pace?

In wow, when you’re running a dungeon, you never slow down or stop. Health and mana regen rates are so fast that by the time you could start having a meaningful conversation, you’re already ready to fight.

So maybe it’s 50% environment 50% player.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Topgunben [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you think classic EQ promotes socializing because of camps and the slower pace?

In wow, when you’re running a dungeon, you never slow down or stop. Health and mana regen rates are so fast that by the time you could start having a meaningful conversation, you’re already ready to fight.

So maybe it’s 50% environment 50% player.

I like that eq left lots of typing time.

I don't think that is such a necessary part of MMO design now, what with voice chat.

[Ciderpress]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like that eq left lots of typing time.

I don't think that is such a necessary part of MMO design now, what with voice chat.

I don't think voice chat changes much. It just lets you "type" really fast. You still need to pay attention when a sketchy pull comes in.

I remember people describing EQ as "a chat room with a game around it" and I don't even think that's a pejorative, although I'm sure it was meant as one. What multiplayer game *isn't* just a chatroom with a game around it? The whole appeal is the other real people.

If I want compelling single player I'll play breath of the wild or mario or something.

[Wakanda]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like that eq left lots of typing time.

I don't think that is such a necessary part of MMO design now, what with voice chat.

When classic WoW launched there was a lot of 20 year old kids on our server who were trying to play it because they wanted to see what it was all about. One day my friend and I are typing away while in a group in Duskwood forest, when this girl he introduced me to rage quit the group. Since I barely ever spoke to her, I asked him what her issue was, and he told me that she felt like we were excluding her since we typed so much. Apparently a lot of kids from her generation can't type fast enough to have a conversation with us old schoolers who learned to type REALLY fast because of EQ. I remember the first time I realized I could type efficiently after months of pecking was when I was running for my life through the Sarnak Fort in LOIO and typing to my group that I was in trouble and had the chancellor on me. Up until that point I never understood how anyone could type so fast without looking at the keyboard, but I had just done it ! Now I have kids on WoW debating over whether or not I'm AI since they don't think any human being can type that fast and they view me as a propaganda machine because of my obviously biased political views on everything [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Wakanda]

Originally Posted by Topgunben [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you think classic EQ promotes socializing because of camps and the slower pace?

In wow, when you’re running a dungeon, you never slow down or stop. Health and mana regen rates are so fast that by the time you could start having a meaningful conversation, you’re already ready to fight.

So maybe it’s 50% environment 50% player.

If we're talking about modern WoW, then this is accurate. But the same could be said for EQ live. This is something long-time WoW players frequently cite when talking about why classic WoW was better. I remember coming home from working and messaging random people for hours begging them to join my group and having to hold their hands and walk them out to certain dungeons. If they were good I would add them to my friends list so I could narrow down the search for future groups. I also remember having to explain every single fight before each pull because there was no DBM or anything. I also remember having to mark each target and tell each specific player what I wanted THEM to CC. Hell, there wasn't even any damage meters. I remember going on witch hunts and looking at peoples' gear and asking players if they were leveling weapons skills because the mobs weren't dying fast enough and our priest was going OOM and we were wiping as a result [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't get me wrong, I will always prefer EQ over WoW, but for me WoW was and still is dramatically more social than EQ. I think this is namely because the nature of the internet changed dramatically between 1999 and 2004 and onward. I actually always thought WoW was kind of a mediocre and boring game, but that the social aspect of the game made it fun.

To put it simply, when WoW launched, we suddenly had voice chat, and myspace / facebook were super trendy, so I felt like I got to know players on WoW in ways that I never did on EQ due to the crude nature of the early internet. I'm still friends with people from classic WoW. I have them on facebook and actually still play with some of them on WoW (although Dragonflight is the first expac where almost none of my friends play anymore). Meanwhile, I have a hard time even naming any of the people I played EQ with 25 years ago [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] which makes me sad.

But even in 2024 I still feel like WoW is dramatically more social than EQ. I think the main reason for this is because the average person who plays EQ in 2024 is an older male who mostly plays EQ solo and who generally likes to be left alone, and this honestly describes myself in many ways, so that's not really a jab at anyone. Meanwhile I have to appear offline on Battle Net and Discord because there's ton of annoying girls who will beg me to join their VC the second they realize I'm online (platonic relationships, but 20 year old women tend to be a lot more social than us 40-something year old reclusive men).

Also for me the biggest hit WoW took was at the end of MoP when they introduced X-realm and flex raids. This killed the need for a 25 man raid guild. At the time I was so excited for x-realm and flex raids. But after a couple of years I realized that you no longer got to know other players since you didn't need a dedicated guild with players from your own server anymore. Anyone who was in a raiding guild before this time knows exactly what I'm talking about. The drama on our Ventrilo servers used to be soooooo epic. Nowadays if you complain about not being able to find a raid guild people will make fun of you and tell you to use the group finder.

[Ciderpress]

If WoW hadn't been based on a well-established and beloved franchise (Warcraft), and was instead just a generic cartoony looking original mmo with the exact same mechanics, I'm not sure it would have been nearly as successful.

People are always like "Well see it killed EQ because of this feature or that feature" but they always leave out "oh also it's a WARCRAFT GAME"

[Wakanda]

Originally Posted by Ciderpress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If WoW hadn't been based on a well-established and beloved franchise (Warcraft), and was instead just a generic cartoony looking original mmo with the exact same mechanics, I'm not sure it would have been nearly as successful.

People are always like "Well see it killed EQ because of this feature or that feature" but they always leave out "oh also it's a WARCRAFT GAME"

One of the big things for WoW's success was also the fact that it ran easily on any e-machine or cheap laptop. I spent all kinds of money trying to get EQ 2 to run decently on my PC and it never did. Was really frustrating too because back then, online shopping wasn't a big thing, so this involved driving all over to random "computer stores" to see if they had anything I could upgrade in my already fairly expensive gaming PC to see if it would make EQ 2 run better. Had same problem with Vanguard.

[Ciderpress]

Also worth noting that this was peak blizzard. Not only did people love the Warcraft games, people were also obsessed with diablo (especially diablo 2) which came out a few years prior. So blizzard had a ton of good credit with the public when WoW was released, and a lot of people probably realized hey this whole mmo thing is fun, just cause it was new to them.

So no I don't think it's a successor to EQ. They took the formula and slapped an established IP into it that they knew would sell. Hardly surprised it did so well, but in a way that's because people already loved EQ and the original Warcraft games, not necessarily WoW on it's own merits.

[Salaryman]

I like wow, I am the King of IronForge, but the instanced bosses and lack of classes like bard and enchanter make this vote a no.

EQ was made by a company that thought they would go under after launch like Morrowind and Demon's Souls, you dont get quality and risk taking like that without those parameters happening.

Spiritual succesor to EQ: Darkfall Online.