Game Mechanics: Mistwalker pets

[Daldaen]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...ght=mistwalker

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[*]Kanras: Fixed bug where some mistwalker pets would only do bash/kick damage[*]Kanras: Mistwalker pets will now depop after one round of combat.

Note that change. It isn't because it was incorrect on blue, its because it fit into the timeline. It being OP doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed to be classic... see Manastone for example.

I hate to say it, but the previous poster was right, you just seem butthurt for whatever reason.

[Cast]

Hurdur, you probably have no idea why this patch went into effect - it's because FoH realized they could kill Overseer in air (which was supposed to be unkillable) as level 50s prior to kunark using 5+ mistwalkers. Since the mistwalker pet went directly to the top of a mobs hatelist, they could just use 255max dex'ed rangers to spawn them continually and the rangers would never take any damage.

And this was not the only patch that directly targeted the mistwalker pet, you should probably look up the patchnotes for "you can no longer buff a pet with less than 20hp" - a patch thated correct an imbalanced pet with (hrrhdrr) 1hp.

Also, lol @ they were never in patches argument (because they were) - but also because it proves the point that the item was imbalanced, hurdur lets look at other issues of imbalance that have been removed or classic gameplay that has been altered for the same reasons on this server. Proof of at least 4 major gameplay changes to an item and you'd have us believe the correct version to use is other than my first reply to this thread. Certainly I'd expect trolling, but I think the two dopes above me think they're actually right lol. Probably from blue 99 and don't even play red


edit: and my god, using MANASTONE as some sort of proof that a bugged item, that took at least 4 major nerfs prior to Kunark, should be implemented in its imbalanced form to adhere to classic standards. MANASTONE. ha.. hah... hahahahaa

[Rais]

Yes clearly I have no idea what or how FoH did things.[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] you got me.

Mistwalker was buffable and didn't depop for a while. Yes it was nerfed over a period of time in different waves. I'm glad you keep stating that it was nerfed more than once. Kinda tells you how many different things were changed with it.

The multi nerfs aren't converted to "Day 1" when they dropped. It happened months after it started to drop. Not all the nerfs were in patches.

From your own link, that you are using based on all your arguments.

Stop trolling the boards.

Yes it it true the mistwalker has been nurfed for the 3rd time. I am sure
not many people are aware of this since its a rare dragon loot item. To give
you an idea of how rare this item is, we have killed vox apro 15-20 times in
the past 3 months and Vox has dropped this item 3 times.
1st nerf, Cant hp buff pet (Understand this one)
2nd nerf, Cant rune pet
3rd nerf, Once pet procs and hit the mob, the mob will super aggro it
killing it within 1-2 hits.
Verant has basicaly put a cheat code in the AI. So the way it is, even if a
wiz had dumped 4000kdmg on the mob and the mob is beating on the wiz, If the
pet hits the mob it will instantly turn and aggro the pet killing it, even
if the pet does 1dmg.
What gets me the most is the fact they NEVER put what nerfs changes they put
into the patch msg. I am sure their theory is what they dont know want hurt
them. The only reason they posted the monk changes is people yelled and
screamed for a day. What used to be a worthy dragon item has become a desent
10dmg 25dely weapon.

[Nizzarr]

so to come back to the OP:

not sure if bug: Mistwalker pet always lvl 49, no other levels in like ~30 pets.

Bug: not quadding when given weapons, not taking weapons at all.

what should happen: Pet should be taking weapons and quadding.

[Cast]

Your contention is,

Originally Posted by Rais [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes it was nerfed over a period of time in different waves. I'm glad you keep stating that it was nerfed more than once. Kinda tells you how many different things were changed with it.

Not all the nerfs were in patches.

That because within a period of 6 weeks additional changes were made to continue to nerf the imbalance, therefore it should follow a timeline related to 1999 rather than removing the imbalances that were ultimately identified PRIOR to kunark launch? What are you smoking.

Here's 9/28 patchnote that is specifically put in to begin correcting the glaring imbalanced pet, and again if you click my original link from 6 weeks later, you'll see an additional two nerfs have been listed against the pet by Elderan.

Sept 28, 1999: remove ability to give mistwalker hp buff
Nov 17, 1999:
1) can no longer rune pet
2) pet essentially poofs after one round

September 28, 1999
------------------------------
General Enhancements
- A Yes/No request window is now brought up when ever turning in the PK
note to the Priest of Discord.
- It is now possible to manually reorganize icons within the spell
book. This may be performed by right-clicking on the currently placed
icon (the icon will then be highlighted), then right-clicking on the
desired slot you wish to move it.
- Pet damage inflicted during PvP combat has been slightly reduced.
- It is now possible to place items marked as "No Drop" in the bank.
- NPC corpses will only remain for 8 minutes, even while looting.
- If a party member goes link-dead, the remaining members will be
notified.
- Pets with less than 20 hit points cannot receive hit point buffs.

Yes that is incredibly difficult to understand. Imbalance is identified, proper changes are implemented on test/live servers until the ultimate fix is determined. Verant was notorious for not listing actual changes in the changelogs, which is why when people try to argue over classic era shit using kunark/velious era reasoning it's ridiculous. Every day items and procs and spells were changing without citation.

This isn't 1999, we know what the imbalances are and how to correct them. Back in June-July '99 when few guilds began killing Vox, they had to allow time to develop understanding and implement fixes to clearly broken pieces of their game.

Here is the reason it was specifically listed in the patch notes for February 2000:

I was asked by a developer whilst we were in Plane of Sky how
we were planning on killing the mob, I explained the plan
detailed above, Mistwalker was subsequently nerfed 2 days
later after confirming the plans efficacy.
I apologize for the inconvenience, as I've actually nerfed my
own guilds efficacy a bit with this but I suppose it was for
the 'greater good.'
Furor Planedefiler
Guildmaster of the Fires of Heaven, Veeshan

The proc rate was hotpatched into being near useless while they continued to find a solution to an exploitable, imbalanced item. How many prime examples could we pick out from that time period and have no implementation on this server.

Take egg shaped pumices for example, how have they been implemented here?

Originally Posted by Bockscar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They're removed from red99 in the name of balance. Storebought instant dispel wrecks PvP completely. It was the one non-classic thing that was unanimously requested and approved. Egg-shaped Pumice is different from Crystallized Pumice, the one with a cast time, which is still there. Unlimited instant dispel was not part of anyone's toolset, it was beyond broken. Removing them from red99 is justifiable because they were removed from live fairly early.

So while you will continue to pontificate the first proc version of an imbalanced (and subsequently rebalanced) item, I will continue to tell you the only version of this sword that should be (and currently is) on this server is a classic era version and you graciously included the link for us:

Originally Posted by Rais [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Feb 17, 2000.
However, the resulting pet will now automatically "dissipate" after one combat round.
http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20000217a.html

Start using your brain-

Originally Posted by Rais [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We all know it was nerfed a few months after they started to be dropped.

This is clearly not true as Nizzarr thought it was kunark era (clearly never played in 1999). However, the bigger response to that is

..if you know it was nerfed shortly after it was introduced to the hundreds of thousands of players circa 1999 and deemed imbalanced, why would you think that version should ever be allowed on a PVP server? Are you going to bring up Guise of Deceivers as your next item to say "BUT, BUT, BUT LOOK! We followed this item timeline!!", Christ save you.

[Nizzarr]

Originally Posted by Cast [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your contention is,



That because within a period of 6 weeks additional changes were made to continue to nerf the imbalance, therefore it should follow a timeline related to 1999 rather than removing the imbalances that were ultimately identified PRIOR to kunark launch? What are you smoking.

Here's 9/28 patchnote that is specifically put in to begin correcting the glaring imbalanced pet, and again if you click my original link from 6 weeks later, you'll see an additional two nerfs have been listed against the pet by Elderan.

Sept 28, 1999: remove ability to give mistwalker hp buff
Nov 17, 1999:
1) can no longer rune pet
2) pet essentially poofs after one round



Yes that is incredibly difficult to understand. Imbalance is identified, proper changes are implemented on test/live servers until the ultimate fix is determined. Verant was notorious for not listing actual changes in the changelogs, which is why when people try to argue over classic era shit using kunark/velious era reasoning it's ridiculous. Every day items and procs and spells were changing without citation.

This isn't 1999, we know what the imbalances are and how to correct them. Back in June-July '99 when few guilds began killing Vox, they had to allow time to develop understanding and implement fixes to clearly broken pieces of their game.

Here is the reason it was specifically listed in the patch notes for February 2000:


The proc rate was hotpatched into being near useless while they continued to find a solution to an exploitable, imbalanced item. How many prime examples could we pick out from that time period and have no implementation on this server.

Take egg shaped pumices for example, how have they been implemented here?



So while you will continue to pontificate the first proc version of an imbalanced (and subsequently rebalanced) item, I will continue to tell you the only version of this sword that should be (and currently is) on this server is a classic era version and you graciously included the link for us:



Start using your brain-



This is clearly not true as Nizzarr thought it was kunark era (clearly never played in 1999). However, the bigger response to that is

..if you know it was nerfed shortly after it was introduced to the hundreds of thousands of players circa 1999 and deemed imbalanced, why would you think that version should ever be allowed on a PVP server? Are you going to bring up Guise of Deceivers as your next item to say "BUT, BUT, BUT LOOK! We followed this item timeline!!", Christ save you.

Go kill vox and get one while theyre good then.

oh wait, oops

[Cast]

Go get a necro pet circa 1999 while theyre good then.
Go get a egg shaped pumice while theyre good then.
Go get a fear and charmable player spell while theyre good then.
Go get a redwand while theyre good then.
Go get a selos song that overwrites root while theyre good then.


Yes, some of the items, abilities, spells, procs -deemed imbalanced from 1999- that are excluded from the classical timeline approach. Certainly we should make an exception for a pet that went so many rounds of nerfs Rais can't even keep track of them in his head.

It's this type of idiocy that bothers me on this server. Trolling aside, you've done this before prior to R99 launching by not telling anyone that Sword of Runes proc rate was bugged, asked it to be implemented for every pet class (not just necro) and then exploited it with your druid. The same process was done with other items, namely redwands. Hopefully "the content team" understands whats going on here and doesn't fall for your douchebaggery again.

[Gmal]

Source: http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20000217a.html
Date: FEBRUARY 17, 2000

Mistwalker:

The Mistwalker will once again cast its spell as often as it used to prior to the last patch. However, the resulting pet will now automatically "dissipate" after one combat round. The change that reduced the "proc" percentage on the weapon was made due to an unintended interaction between the pet and the target when several users of this weapon were attacking the same target. Since the new pet now automatically dissipates after one round, the reduced "proc" percentage was no longer necessary.

[Nizzarr]

This is currently in its "reduced proc percentage" form as well here.

I can swing 50 times before seeing a pet, repeatedly. This thing proced like crazy back in the days before that proc percentage nerf, which apparently was in the patch before this one.

Also still cant dual wield, still always lvl 49.

range should be 48-51

[Nirgon]

Considering one dropped accidentally on the blue server as a result of red going live. We'll see if this ever sees the light of day.