Raid Rules Alternative

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by Erasong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

this rule and suicide kings are looking good so far. hopefully people act on it.

This.

[Jify]

1. 1 Hour afk = booted from server (this should fix the non raiders problem of getting booted randomly for being afk). Honestly if your going to be afk for more than an hour just log back on.

I agree!

2. First to engage rule 15min, exactly like Dumesh outlined with a small adjustment here and there for specific bosses that requires planar clears.

Agree. Keep the 2 golem rule on CT, but apply the "first to agro - 15min to mass engage" part in for killing Golems!

3. Increase Time variance even more to + or - 7 ~ 10 days. Add in a flat 8 hours before variance starts on time of the death of the boss (Emil's idea). To further discourage camping even with these rules.

IMO, current variance is enough to discourage camping, if all it takes is someone to run into zone and agro before you do.

4. Offer draconian consequences for lying / fabricating incidents to GM. If proof was ever found that X person was guilty of making shit up, go beyond the 1 month ban. PERMA BAN of IP and account, repeat offenses from full members of X guild = dissolution of sketchy guild.

That's pretty extreme. I'd promote a deleveling of 5 levels, to bring them below the planar requirement. But no perma banning. There have been times when I was 100% sure we were in the right, and GMs ruled against us. (not to say they are inhuman and always make the correct decisions, but we must abide by them)

[Pyrocat]

Originally Posted by Jify [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's pretty extreme. I'd promote a deleveling of 5 levels, to bring them below the planar requirement. But no perma banning. There have been times when I was 100% sure we were in the right, and GMs ruled against us. (not to say they are inhuman and always make the correct decisions, but we must abide by them)

I don't think deleveling is a solution GMs would want. It's very non-classic and guilds can PL whoever took the fall anyway.

Temp bans of 14-30 days sounds good, and I like Xzerions (I think) idea of needing an officer to vouch for whomever got a GM involved, who would share the weight of their ban.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

Originally Posted by Pyrocat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think deleveling is a solution GMs would want. It's very non-classic and guilds can PL whoever took the fall anyway.

Temp bans of 14-30 days sounds good, and I like Xzerions (I think) idea of needing an officer to vouch for whomever got a GM involved, who would share the weight of their ban.

Perhaps not, this is the one area that takes the most input from the server devs. I'm not sure what the ideal penalty is. I just know it must be harsh and the devs must be ok with handing it out however many times it takes to get the message out to the server community. I have a feeling that if it is harsh enough it shouldn't have to be done more than 6-12 times before people quit looking to break the rules to get what they want.

[JaVeDK]

How about a raid specific sub-forum for all these discussions? Most of the server don't really care about any of this, and it's annoying that all the interesting posts are lost in the raid spam. I'm sure the raiders would appreciate having all the raid related threads gathered as well.

[Ektar]

What happens when two people sit on nagafen's spawn point? We're both staring intently at the screen, and both hit taunt or attack or whatever immediately.

YES naggy did have first agro on someone, but that will NOT be determined until after the ensuing clusterfuck of both guilds thinking they were first. Furthermore how will it be determined? By a gm's logs; which is trying to be avoided.

[Datante]

Originally Posted by Ektar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What happens when two people sit on nagafen's spawn point? We're both staring intently at the screen, and both hit taunt or attack or whatever immediately.

YES naggy did have first agro on someone, but that will NOT be determined until after the ensuing clusterfuck of both guilds thinking they were first. Furthermore how will it be determined? By a gm's logs; which is trying to be avoided.

Ektar, this was my major concern as well, and the primary problem with FFA regardless if all of the guilds are trying to abide by player-driven rules.

Could this be fixed by a coded script from the developers that had the boss mob shout out the very first character to gain aggro after the spawn? It would be like a CT with no DT kind of situation.

If this shout script is put in place, FFA becomes a real possibility. Example: Nagafen shouts, "TANK1, you fool! Prepare to die!" and Tank1's guild then has a time limit to fully engage the mob as described by Dumesh. The specifics of when the first guild is said to have 'failed' can be further discussed. Real-time skill can be important again.

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by Datante [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ektar, this was my major concern as well, and the primary problem with FFA regardless if all of the guilds are trying to abide by player-driven rules.

Could this be fixed by a coded script from the developers that had the boss mob shout out the very first character to gain aggro after the spawn? It would be like a CT with no DT kind of situation.

If this shout script is put in place, FFA becomes a real possibility. Example: Nagafen shouts, "TANK1, you fool! Prepare to die!" and Tank1's guild then has a time limit to fully engage the mob as described by Dumesh. The specifics of when the first guild is said to have 'failed' can be further discussed. Real-time skill can be important again.

That is definitely a viable solution. Sometimes agro is random, though. You'd really have to hope to be in range to attack, taunt, or shoot a bow to ensure first agro otherwise you'll be super mad when some afk dude happens to grab agro first. Other than that it would at least add the argument of "we aggroed first so step down till we win or lose." I assume a zonewide shout would be the easiest way to also catch it in logs if anyone chose to take an issue to a GM.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is definitely a viable solution. Sometimes agro is random, though. You'd really have to hope to be in range to attack, taunt, or shoot a bow to ensure first agro otherwise you'll be super mad when some afk dude happens to grab agro first. Other than that it would at least add the argument of "we aggroed first so step down till we win or lose." I assume a zonewide shout would be the easiest way to also catch it in logs if anyone chose to take an issue to a GM.

We did this on progression. First tag got kill rights. We ended up with 12 bards playing the aoe dot song on 1/3rd second intervals til Trakanon spawned.

By the way--is Sky out yet? Kunark on the horizon? I'm kind of on a break [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Doing some evil WoW arenas :P

[G13]

Originally Posted by Datante [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ektar, this was my major concern as well, and the primary problem with FFA regardless if all of the guilds are trying to abide by player-driven rules.

This is what people do not seem to understand

FFA would change nothing. Both guilds would just sit on the spawn waiting for him to pop. Camping would get worse. Not better.

Coding the mob to say "I was hit by so and so guild first" is not classic, and what does that really mean anyways? He randomly attacked someone? Nobody is going to accept mob rights under those conditions. Nobody.

People need to accept that the Everquest raid system is horribly flawed and find a compromise that is competitive, but fair.

Originally Posted by Stickyfingers [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why not just make everything pop at the same time once a week? Then DA would get one and IB would too, the rest of the raid mobs would be open too, as DA and IB would be occupied with their respective raid mob, so a guild like Divinity could try some harder mobs. If Divinity is unable to, DA or IB (or anyone) could go in later and get the unkilled raid mobs. This means DA and IB could still get a raid mob a week, if not 2 or even 3.

Any guild with half a brain would pick Vox. So everyone would be fighting over Vox.