Cheating everywhere, GMs???

[karadin]

Originally Posted by zati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1yIyMFZLX8 - Image you are referring to

Givincer maintained his starting position and can be seen at the end of the video moving dead last. If he wasn't in the video at all nothing would have changed.

Stunningly did not - his movements were registered as a correct response and maintained his impeccable jump off the line versus an admittingly scripted racer(to prove a point)

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/co...reaction_time/

You yourself can scroll down the comments of various users with high end PC's/Monitors. Not one of em get under 150ms(In OPs vid Kickenit was at 95ms? and Stunningly 90-100ms in multiple races).

Ya can also just google "Whats the fastest human response time" too.

Your explanation of Givincer doesn’t help your case. Why is it that Givincer rubber banding back to a reasonable position passes muster for you but Stunningly’s rubber band does not. Look at the screenshot. Stunningly is wayyyyy behind Kickenit and only a bit ahead of the pack. Kickenit didn’t gain that much space within a few frames on a straightaway without having a significantly better jump than Stunningly.

As for the ms reaction times, based on the rubberbanding noted above we can’t trust the frame OP used to make his determination. Clearly there are some serious interpolation issues if he’s neck and neck in the first few frames and then 150+ms behind Kickenit after both players get a sync.

[titanshub]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Only a small subset of the posters here agree that your claim is valid. The rest of us agree that there's no proof in the video. There's some made up equations. There's a poorly made connection to a website that's testing something else. And there's Riot posters just blindly treating the video as gospel because they WANT to believe.

Yall wanted to prove that Vanquish was cheating. You made up numbers and found a website that shows some people can click on colors faster than others. You cheated yourselves to prove it was possible, but have no proof that anybody else is cheating.

And you're blocking out any criticism that shows the flaws in your study.

Nice.

I did not do any of the things you have accused me of lol. I do want to see a rebuttal to the claims because I find them convincing. None of your hand waving and denial has eased my concerns but I am open to you stopping the PR junk and providing some actual evidence to why the methodology is incorrect. Provide a counter example. I think there are lots of places that this can be done, if he is really innocent it shouldn't be that difficult.

Your secret evidence means anything to anyone. Put up or shut up. Provide something tangible (besides nuh-uh) and valid and I'll certainly do the latter.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by titanshub [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did not do any of the things you have accused me of lol. I do want to see a rebuttal to the claims because I find them convincing. None of your hand waving and denial has eased my concerns but I am open to you stopping the PR junk and providing some actual evidence to why the methodology is incorrect. Provide a counter example. I think there are lots of places that this can be done, if he is really innocent it shouldn't be that difficult.

I'ts already been done, but you've got your fingers in your ears singing LA LA LA LA LA

Originally Posted by titanshub [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your secret evidence means anything to anyone. Put up or shut up. Provide something tangible (besides nuh-uh) and valid and I'll certainly do the latter.

If you can't figure out how to get good start times, accuse them of cheating until they tell you how to get good start times. Interesting strategy. No amount of baiting is going to get the solution out of me, though.

This doesn't make your video evidence scientific, though, since we won't tell you how to do it. It just makes you desperate.

[titanshub]

Originally Posted by karadin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your explanation of Givincer doesn’t help your case. Why is it that Givincer rubber banding back to a reasonable position passes muster for you but Stunningly’s rubber band does not. Look at the screenshot. Stunningly is wayyyyy behind Kickenit and only a bit ahead of the pack. Kickenit didn’t gain that much space within a few frames on a straightaway without having a significantly better jump than Stunningly.

As for the ms reaction times, based on the rubberbanding noted above we can’t trust the frame OP used to make his determination. Clearly there are some serious interpolation issues if he’s neck and neck in the first few frames and then 150+ms behind Kickenit after both players get a sync.

I can't keep up with all this, can you provide the video of stunningly rubber banding? I don't see it in the original clip from Runyan?

[titanshub]

Originally Posted by zati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLS-wyZ-mCI - Pro CS:GO players using the humanbench mark.

lol under appreciated comment/video

[cd288]

Originally Posted by karadin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

“Outed themselves.”

Let’s see this bombshell you are sitting on.

Were you not around months ago when they tried to post it as evidence of riot cheating and then tried to walk it back super hard once they realized that riot had forewarned the staff that they would script in order to prove vanquish had been scripting?

Literally most embarrassing thing I’ve seen happen to a guild in a long time, but happy it happened to vanquish because any guild that has Furoar or Detoxx in it is a joke lol

[zati]

Originally Posted by karadin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your explanation of Givincer doesn’t help your case. Why is it that Givincer rubber banding back to a reasonable position passes muster for you but Stunningly’s rubber band does not. Look at the screenshot. Stunningly is wayyyyy behind Kickenit and only a bit ahead of the pack. Kickenit didn’t gain that much space within a few frames on a straightaway without having a significantly better jump than Stunningly.

As for the ms reaction times, based on the rubberbanding noted above we can’t trust the frame OP used to make his determination. Clearly there are some serious interpolation issues if he’s neck and neck in the first few frames and then 150+ms behind Kickenit after both players get a sync.

It's not even a "case" that needs to be solved, but I will. Watched it so many times now and here's my real conclusion about Givincer's "rubberbanding".

1. He's not even on the line with racers which tells me that he hit "Forward" to move into position as the rolls were going then let go the second the roll was 900+ he started moving again. (That's why it shows him standstill in the video and is deadlast in the race) His last input was letting go of his forward button.

2. If he was serious about racing he'd have been already on the line stacked where stunningly and all the other known racers stand. Where the snow meets the grass.

3. Again if he wasn't even in the race his rubberbanding doesn't affect the jump off the first 2 players did which are not really possible by humans ? or a Pro gamer that plays CS:GO competitively

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by karadin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ignoring the fact that you’re not qualified to say what the game was designed to be, it has to be competitive because that is what the creators of p99 have said it must be. They have made it very clear that they are completely against rotations and there are leaked discord logs of them lambasting their GMs for implementing them in the past. I would be happy to link those for you.

Don't need to be a rocket scientist to realize this was never the intention for the game. The creators of P99 are on record (ad nauseam) as saying their intention is to recreate EQ as it was in 1999 as closely as possible. P99 is NOTHING like 1999 Everquest in a wide variety of ways.


P.S. There are options besides FTE and Rotation. Being against rotation =/= it must be competitive.

P.S.S. It's extremely easy to cheat in the way OP is describing. Whether or not you can prove Stunningly (or anyone else) did it or not doesn't matter. The fact that it can be done easily without being detected should be enough to conclude that a different system should be used.

[Endorra]

This thread is why I come back to RNF even though I haven't logged into p99 in forever. Rarely does this forum produce anything worthwhile, but every now and then it's the 20+ page Olympics of Autism in here. Delicious.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

What is the proposed solution? I have nothing againt Spacepope or anybody else concerned about cheating. I want this server to be free of cheaters, boxers, and RMTers too. And I am not posting here because I am trying to defend Vanquish. If cheaters are cheating, they should be punished.

But if the difference between a cheater and a non cheater is 150ms, I am not sure how we can check for that if the cheater isn't doing something obvious like spoofing their packets. It is 100% possible that a person with an above average reaction time plays on P99, who is also living close to the servers.

Unfortunately with online games 150ms delays can happen, packet drops can happen, etc. There needs to be clear evidence of cheating for GMs to act. And even if the rules allowed for people to use the same program to make things fair, you would still lose to lag, proximity to the server, packet drops, etc.