Game Mechanics: Rogue hide and sneak being invis to mobs should be skill dependant

[Sundawg]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pre Planes of Power, Hide did not protect you against see invis mobs. I do not remember having this discussion or I would have made it clear already. I played a Rogue for 10 years on live.

[Dullah]

Originally Posted by Sundawg [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogean View Post
Pre Planes of Power, Hide did not protect you against see invis mobs. I do not remember having this discussion or I would have made it clear already. I played a Rogue for 10 years on live.

About 50 quotes from 1999-2001 exist on this forum alone that negate his memories. Fortunately for some of us, we actually remember the way it worked because we didn't play after Velious.

If staff is going to make their decision based on one players opinions in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, then I just don't know why we are wasting our time trying to work towards a more classic server.

[Nirgon]

Rogean is absolutely correct.

However, check out a little bit on my skill based findings.

I had access to a rogue or two along the way and remember on my alts not being able to sneak/hide past things a higher level rogue could.

I would be very interested in Rogean's opinion there but it may be the case he didn't try sneaking around in zones that were much higher level.

I DO know that getting single pulls could be level dependant as when I hit 58 I could single pull the entrance of seb with non-damaging spells. Or I could pull the higher level frogs away from pack without aggroing the lower ones at that point.

Originally Posted by Titanx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With the way it is now, there are too many creatures that now see hide/sneak that shouldn't.

In my lurkings since the change, it looks like they hit the nail on the head tbh.

[Kender]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rogean is absolutely correct.

However, check out a little bit on my skill based findings.

I had access to a rogue or two along the way and remember on my alts not being able to sneak/hide past things a higher level rogue could.

I would be very interested in Rogean's opinion there but it may be the case he didn't try sneaking around in zones that were much higher level.

I DO know that getting single pulls could be level dependant as when I hit 58 I could single pull the entrance of seb with non-damaging spells. Or I could pull the higher level frogs away from pack without aggroing the lower ones at that point.



In my lurkings since the change, it looks like they hit the nail on the head tbh.

Are you sure that wasnt due to agro radius?

The sneak/hide skill check should only performed when you click the buttons. the higher the skill, the more likely it works first time

A higher level rogue has a smaller agro range than a lower level rogue so although it appears that the higher level rogue sneak/hide is better it might just be that he wasnt close enough to the see invis mob to trigger agro.


As for brell halflings. the reason why they had to be rogues was the undead. they could walk past everything else, but had to sneak past the undead. Yael is one mob i believe that always sees rogues. not sure about others

[koros]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rogean is absolutely correct.

However, check out a little bit on my skill based findings.

I had access to a rogue or two along the way and remember on my alts not being able to sneak/hide past things a higher level rogue could.

I would be very interested in Rogean's opinion there but it may be the case he didn't try sneaking around in zones that were much higher level.

I DO know that getting single pulls could be level dependant as when I hit 58 I could single pull the entrance of seb with non-damaging spells. Or I could pull the higher level frogs away from pack without aggroing the lower ones at that point.



In my lurkings since the change, it looks like they hit the nail on the head tbh.

It was not level dependent. People used level 1 halflings to corpse drag the hole all the time.

Although, in retrospect that may have been due to brell faction

[koros]

Attempting to prove it wasn't so cut and dry as rogue invis = ivu+invis

Dated Feb 1, 2001: http://bcope1.www6.50megs.com/monk/guides/solb.html

Regarding normal invis:

"All monsters can see invisible, so corpse recovery can be a pain, plus you can't easily get to your destination without killing everything on the way"

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/s...ead.php?t=2855

Regarding rogue invis:

"List of Creatures That Can See Through Hide
Dragons (Vox and Nagafen)
Fire Giants
Scorn Banshees
Lichs
Loathing Lichs
Evil Eyes
Huge Elemental (Lower Guk)"

Less mob types could see rogues than could see other classes. There was substantial overlap tho.

[krazyGlue]

Sorry pal I played a rogue during classic . Sneak/hide never worked in places like seb . Becouse of the see invis mobs . But I do think there is to meny mobs that can see invis like in solb and the lower level zones but 1

[krazyGlue]

100% never worked in any plane . Or high level dungeon such as vp seb . Ect

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by krazyGlue [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

100% never worked in any plane . Or high level dungeon such as vp seb . Ect

The Hate portion of the rogue epic revolved around it working the planes. There were two mobs that saw rogues, Lichs and Scorn Banshees. Lich's dont even buff themselves with see invis here so they dont see. Plenty of the wrong mobs do though.

As far as the original post, hide = hide = hide. The only impact of higher hide skill was more success rate and higher evade chance. Same with sneak, more skill meant you would go sneak mode easier.

Skill had nothing to do with whether something saw you or not.

[Dullah]

Cool story, but fortunately there are dozens, if not hundreds, of quotes from that era that disagree with you not to mention my personal memories of players dragging corpses right in front of mobs that saw my wizards invis. Many of which exist in this very thread...

2001
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....Y/5NyioQZCS0MJ
Quote:
Hide and sneak is vastly superior to any form of invisibility, with very
rare exceptions.

Hide and sneak is invis to living AND dead, nobody else can do that.

Hide and sneak never wears off (except zoning), all other invises (even
bards) do.

Hide and sneak will make you invis to things that will see through regular
invis or IVU. Nobody puts on invis spells to pull corpses in Hate.

troll harder.