Luclin models...a poll

[Deathrydar]

I am sorry, people can say it doesn't affect gameplay all they want, but it does! This is CLASSIC EVERQUEST! How can anyone justify using the graphic models from the era that most of feel is where our beloved game was ruined, is a good idea?

[km2783]

And if you ask me, anyone who can't get over it, it's their own problem and not anyone else's. You don't have to ever even know the models are there if you don't want to use them.

[Rasterburn]

I voted in favor of Luclin models, for several important reasons:

(1) First of all, it is improper to pretend that Luclin is not "classic EQ." It most certainly is classic, being that it was the last expansion which was fully developed by Verant. It is not a "Sony expansion," so please stop referring to it that way. Verant developed Luclin and in fact, they had even started working on the initial stages of PoP when they finally sold out completely to SOE in mid-2002. I have had this explained to me directly by none other than Brad McQuaid himself, via some casual messages that we exchanged during the beta testing of Vanguard. So perhaps this opens up another issue for the P1999 administrators: why don't you simply continue patching the game right up through Luclin..? That way, all of the legitimate, classic Verant content will eventually will be covered. You may not have cared for Luclin for whatever reasons, but your preference does not make Luclin any less valid as a classic EverQuest expansion. It was a 100% Verant-produced expansion to the classic game, period.

(2) Speaking as a texture artist, the rejection of the Luclin models is irrational, as they are generally superior to the original models. I think what we're seeing here are emotional responses based upon nostalgia, rather than objectivity and common sense. Which is fine... everyone is entitled to their feelings. But claiming that the Luclin models look bad in comparison to the originals is just plain ridiculous. And also, it should be pointed out once again that those upgraded models were developed by Verant... not by SOE.

(3) Lastly... and this has been touched upon many times within this thread... I do not think this issue should be decided by a poll. The results of polls are often dominated by status quo's and cliques. It makes more sense to decide this issue based upon INCLUSIVENESS. Do you want the ENTIRE player base to be happy with their options..? Then enable the Luclin models for those players who desire them. Do you prefer to be dictatorial and insist that everybody MUST be seeing the exact same things as everybody else..? And does everything we see NEED to be compatible with 1999 EverQuest..? Then you can start by forcibly removing the 2005 HUD elements, disabling widescreen graphics options, forcing low-res textures on EVERYTHING, disabling quite a few console commands, and... need I go on..? The entire attitude of "I only want you to see blah blah blah" is utterly ridiculous. Personally, I have the ability to hack into my game files and make sure that all of you appear completely naked on my screen, with big purple smiley faces on your backsides. I could do that in a heartbeat, if I wanted to. Do you really care..? Well, you shouldn't. It's my screen, not yours. The entire "shared experience" argument is thus worthless, as there will always be too many variables... thus it is impossible to ensure it. Let's just give up on that tact -- because it is not valid, nor is it enforceable.


I think we should look at this in the same way that our lawmakers look at the "gay marriage" issue. I personally am not in favor of gay marriages. Lots of other people are in favor of them. And in every state where that issue has been put to the vote, it has been shot down by a small margin. But the law, in its wisdom, realizes that deciding such issues by way of a vote (or a poll) is simply opening the door to unfair discrimination by the majority against a minority. Imagine if we held a poll in some of the more redneck southern U.S. states, and asked the mostly white population if blacks should continue to be allowed to vote, or be able to sit in the front of the bus. You can imagine how such a poll would turn out... but would it be fair..?

To sum it up: I feel that to be as inclusive and as fair as possible to ALL of the players on this server, the players themselves should have the option to select which character models they desire to see on their screens. And if the object of this poll was to "gauge interest in having Luclin models available," then the admin should recognize that according to the results, a full third of the player base has expressed such an interest. That's a very sizable number of players, all thing considered... hence it should be concluded that there is in fact a very strong interest amongst the players to have the Luclin models be made available as an option.

PS -- for the record, I began playing EQ in late 1999 and continued up until mid-2003, at which point I just couldn't take the dumbed-down SOE content any longer. I am as veteran as it gets, pretty much. But I won't allow my nostalgia to blind me to the fact that options are always better than a lack thereof, so long as they do not significantly impact upon the core gameplay.

[Kutter]

Make some pretty pictures of your luclin models and paste 'em to your screen. cuz that's as close as you're gonna get.

These guys need to be workin' on Kunark and Velious. Not wastin' their time on post-Velious expansion material that's entirely cosmetic. Plenty of other servers you can go to where you can feast your eyes on the Luclin models to your heart's content. This ain't one of them. Period.

[Rasterburn]

Originally Posted by Kutter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Make some pretty pictures of your luclin models and paste 'em to your screen. cuz that's as close as you're gonna get.

These guys need to be workin' on Kunark and Velious. Not wastin' their time on post-Velious expansion material that's entirely cosmetic. Plenty of other servers you can go to where you can feast your eyes on the Luclin models to your heart's content. This ain't one of them. Period.

Actually, I can do whatever I want. I told you -- I can modify my own game files and I have already done so. Deal with it. Hence your dictatorial attitude is rather laughable in my case. So please just can it, because it is entirely uncalled for. And I have already said why, in my previous post.

I was speaking on behalf of ALL of the players on this server, ALL of whom are just as important as you are... even though you apparently do not think so.

Personally, I think the very best option of all is to simply keep adding to the P1999 server all the way up to Luclin, since it is every bit as "classic" as Kunark and Velious. If you disagree, well then that is your choice... but as if often said these days: you are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts. If the definition of "classic" is "produced entirely by Verant," then your definition must by default include Luclin, as it was Verant's final expansion.

As for the "wasting time on it" argument, I guess that argument would carry some weight amongst people who can't walk and chew gum at the same time. For the rest of us who are capable of actually doing more than one thing at a time, it is moot.

Have a nice day and thank you for sharing your opinions. That's what forum boards are for: sharing different opinions, not dictating to others based upon some perceived status quo. Or at least, that's what they -should- be for.

[SupaflyIRL]

Originally Posted by Morfnblorsh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not a matter of being denied some personal freedom, it's a matter of this project NEVER, EVER GOING TO THE FUCKING MOON. Hence, these models should never, ever be available. Simple as that.

Most of luclin was pretty good (Ssra, akheva, aas making useless classes competitive). Also there's a spaceship in classic.

[Jereziah]

Morf, that's besides the point. We're already using features that are from other expansions (maps) etc.

It IS exactly about denying people personal freedom of choice. What possible negative thing could result from my screen showing you as a new model? How would you ever know if you didn't have new models turned on?

[nilbog]

We're already using features that are from other expansions (maps) etc.

Ok now this isn't fair. We have no means to disable this, or it would be disabled. If means are found, it will be.

[Extunarian]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok now this isn't fair. We have no means to disable [maps], or it would be disabled. If means are found, it will be.

funny to see all the stuff these folks have been able to accomplish that seemed impossible before [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Darian]

I rerolled my shaman alt because new ogre models are awesome but the old ones are terrible.

I don't feel like slogging through all the pages- can someone explain why custom interfaces that provide clear advantages over the default velious UI are okay and encouraged but cosmetic graphics upgrades are forbidden?