Balance and game design : Why red got it right?

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Red's XP bonus is just a desperate attempt to get someone, anyone, to play over there.

Nobody making anyone play on either server, I don't get where this hate comes from [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not a bad design, imo.

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but that doesn't mean druid isn't the perfect class for a lot of people or that magicians aren't great in groups and crucial for raids. People who don't like enchanters don't give a shit that enchanters are the most powerful solo and duo and group class, because they don't want to play an enchanter. People who don't want to solo nameds in dungeons couldn't care less that their druid or ranger or bard can't. /shrug

The part I would argue is bad design is that everything you just said is true ... but a new player looking at the available classes has no idea what any of those classes are really about. When you pick a Bard the class description doesn't say "you're the master of killing when in grassy fields, but stay out of dungeons unless you're with friends", and when you pick a shaman envisioning yourself casting voodoo curses, nothing warns you you'll be sitting on your ass root/roti-ng.

I don't like how the newer MMOGs have oversimplified their classes, but I do think games like WoW explain their classes better, and have a much more well-thought-out focus for them. Compare that to EQ, where many of the class-defining features (things like quad kiting, ae groups, sneak plulling, etc.) weren't even planned by the developers.

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Reworked ZEMs sounds pretty awesome to me. Although that would probably spawn a slew of threads of people whining about this and that as a result just like anything else would... haha.

I think the trick would be to only lower any given zone's mod by 5% or 10% at most, but add a more substantive bonus (20%?) to the under-used goblin dungeons, Dalnir, etc. People can't whine that much about their favorite zone going down by 5%, but a 20% bonus would certainly draw people to new places.

[Iumuno]

I much preferred the late luclin changes that made level 55+ mobs give a lot more xp than they used to. Additionnal xp from tougher content should be the incentive for grouping, not artificial bonuses.

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by Glenzig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dungeons in WoW are challenging? Never felt that way to me.

yea challenging to give a shit about, like the rest of that game. ;p

[Clark]

Originally Posted by Iumuno [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I much preferred the late luclin changes that made level 55+ mobs give a lot more xp than they used to. Additionnal xp from tougher content should be the incentive for grouping, not artificial bonuses.

[hivemind]

Stop with your attempts to stop the blue server from bleeding. Pras exp bonus on red, may blue shrivel and die as it bleeds out. Blood is blue before it turns red, you know...

Okay, I'm kidding. But honestly, the exp bonus was only awesome for red in that it brought a SHITLOAD of people to the server (and I was all-for EXP bonus for this VERY reason). I personally despise leveling so much faster (so I solo or just don't exp). The group exp bonus on red makes leveling trivial. Why would you implement something like that on blue where EXPing is literally one of the only things you can do outside of AFKing in EC?

Trust me, you don't want none of this.

[Tecmos Deception]

It's not a bad design, its just different. You guys are looking at 'balance' from the viewpoint of someone entrenched in modern MMOs. A game can be good, great even, even if it isn't balanced in every way and 100% noob friendly and such.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Iumuno [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I much preferred the late luclin changes that made level 55+ mobs give a lot more xp than they used to. Additionnal xp from tougher content should be the incentive for grouping, not artificial bonuses.

Luclin, the greatest expansion?!! /ducks nilbog's wrath

[Breeziyo]

cats on the moon taught my iksar to have a pet scaled wolf. best xpac

[Corbin]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The part I would argue is bad design is that everything you just said is true ... but a new player looking at the available classes has no idea what any of those classes are really about. When you pick a Bard the class description doesn't say "you're the master of killing when in grassy fields, but stay out of dungeons unless you're with friends", and when you pick a shaman envisioning yourself casting voodoo curses, nothing warns you you'll be sitting on your ass root/roti-ng.

I don't like how the newer MMOGs have oversimplified their classes, but I do think games like WoW explain their classes better, and have a much more well-thought-out focus for them. Compare that to EQ, where many of the class-defining features (things like quad kiting, ae groups, sneak plulling, etc.) weren't even planned by the developers.



I think the trick would be to only lower any given zone's mod by 5% or 10% at most, but add a more substantive bonus (20%?) to the under-used goblin dungeons, Dalnir, etc. People can't whine that much about their favorite zone going down by 5%, but a 20% bonus would certainly draw people to new places.

When I started solo I rolled a warrior. I chose warrior after I read a class description. When I played chess I was a fairly defensive player. I liked to attack from a position of strength. So, being older, slower, a total newb (with a kind of turn based preference), and without much social energy; I thought playing a warrior would give me more time to figure things out on my own and prevail[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Still, it turned out to be the perfect choice. Of course, I encouraged my wife to try EQ and eventually to play a shaman...

I always felt grouping power made for it's own reward. Of course I was a warrior and it wasn't P1999.