Hobby Lobby

[LulzSect]

You're a dumb faggot. This is a fact.

[bktroost]

What do you call people who make it their hobby to lobby against Hobby Lobby?

[Kekephee]

I guess I confused the issue a little bit. This kind of became about abortion when it should have been about Hobby Lobby.


So the big question is, under what circumstances does my boss get to dictate, based on his religious beliefs, how I live my life? (It's already been said that this isn't actually a religious issue, the company is just finding an excuse to not spend money, but for the sake of argument.)

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Kekephee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess I confused the issue a little bit. This kind of became about abortion when it should have been about Hobby Lobby.


So the big question is, under what circumstances does my boss get to dictate, based on his religious beliefs, how I live my life? (It's already been said that this isn't actually a religious issue, the company is just finding an excuse to not spend money, but for the sake of argument.)

Bosses do it all the time. Drug tests, codes of conduct, etc. The main point of their argument is generally that they are being coerced by the law to violate their sincerely held religious beliefs. This is generally something that is strongly protected under the Constitution. These are sincerely held beliefs. I am personal friends with a litigator working on this case. This is an absolutly sincere battle; it is not about the money.

[Kekephee]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bosses do it all the time. Drug tests, codes of conduct, etc. The main point of their argument is generally that they are being coerced by the law to violate their sincerely held religious beliefs. This is generally something that is strongly protected under the Constitution. These are sincerely held beliefs. I am personal friends with a litigator working on this case. This is an absolutly sincere battle; it is not about the money.

You know, I live in Houston, too. I'm curious about your thoughts regarding the Equal Rights Ordinance that just passed here. Do you think employers should be able to fire their employees for being gay? I ask because it's the same thing, and I'm curious to see what you think about that.

[Estolcles]

Originally Posted by Kekephee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You know, I live in Houston, too. I'm curious about your thoughts regarding the Equal Rights Ordinance that just passed here. Do you think employers should be able to fire their employees for being gay? I ask because it's the same thing, and I'm curious to see what you think about that.

They have the right to fire employees for being gay in Texas?

*adds Texas to a list of places he hates*

[Kekephee]

Originally Posted by Estolcles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They have the right to fire employees for being gay in Texas?

*adds Texas to a list of places he hates*

Not in Houston! At least not since last month!

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Kekephee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You know, I live in Houston, too. I'm curious about your thoughts regarding the Equal Rights Ordinance that just passed here. Do you think employers should be able to fire their employees for being gay?

That's a loaded question.

But, generally, yes. It might be because the owner is a huge jerk, or it might be because the hiring organization has a specific moral code. Whatever those reasons, it should generally be the owner's prerogative to make these decisions. Is there a benefit of outlawing this practice? Yes, you protect gays from bosses being asses and firing them just because of that with no backing reason. Is there a down side? Absolutely, such laws tend to tie the hands of organizations that do possess legitimate codes of conduct and would have a good reason to not hire that person.

Such laws often have exceptions built in similar to the old "bona fide occupational qualification" standard, but such laws often have poor execution of their exceptions that, in my opinion, often make them not worth the negatives.

Does the law allow people to be fired for being gay? Yes, in many places. Should it? Probably yes because of what it means to the freedom of association of business owners with sincerely held beliefs.

[Kekephee]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's a loaded question.

But, generally, yes. It might be because the owner is a huge jerk, or it might be because the hiring organization has a specific moral code. Whatever those reasons, it should generally be the owner's prerogative to make these decisions. Is there a benefit of outlawing this practice? Yes, you protect gays from bosses being asses and firing them just because of that with no backing reason. Is there a down side? Absolutely, such laws tend to tie the hands of organizations that do possess legitimate codes of conduct and would have a good reason to not hire that person.

Such laws often have exceptions built in similar to the old "bona fide occupational qualification" standard, but such laws often have poor execution of their exceptions that, in my opinion, often make them not worth the negatives.

Does the law allow people to be fired for being gay? Yes, in many places. Should it? Probably yes because of what it means to the freedom of association of business owners with sincerely held beliefs.

I wasn't intending it as a loaded question. I'm not going to be like, LOOK EVERYBODY, XASTEN'S A HOMOPHOBE HE SAID GAYS SHOULD BE FIRED. I really just wanted to know if your opinion was that employer powers stretched that far. Now I know they do. I disagree entirely, but these are opinions and they're allowed to not be the same.

[Heebo]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does the law allow people to be fired for being gay? Yes, in many places. Should it? Probably yes because of what it means to the freedom of association of business owners with sincerely held beliefs.

This is worse than anything else I've read on these forums because I know you actually believe it.