Mink damage vs hybrids

[Damn]

Originally Posted by Ivory [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ya, monk can solo ragefire....

But can they camp A4 solo? Or casually take down WW dragons? :P Not typically without burning a bunch of money on wort potions at least.

Sure monks are strong.....nice mix of DPS and tanking potential (same with warrior). But level 60 sk are strong too.....or rogues....or rangers....or....lots of things.

Slightly more efficient DPS and FD isn't really game breaking. Team up with a healer or someone and the thing is going to die sooner or later no matter what you are.

Or for normal soloing (without burning potions), monks don't really outshine other classes at all. They have a very limited window of what they can hunt and run into a hard limit of their power potential.

Where as something like a ranger or sk can go far beyond that upper limit because of how different they are mechanically when using their abilities to do something other than tank and spank.

But that is more smaller group stuff. In a larger group yea monks fill a nice role....decent defensive and great offensive. So, the same group...one has a monk tanking, one has an SK tanking....I would rather take the SK.

The monk does add very slight increase to groups DPS....and can pull better....but the SK and Paladin adds ability to insta-taunt (which in a group at higher end, is prettyyy important). If it is ONLY about the DPS, then sure monks are nice....but, again, when taken in the context of the entire group, it is just a slight increase in the efficiency of stuff dying (though warriors and rogues keep up at level 60, with rangers just a little behind).

So, OP? Nope. They are decent. But things like shamans and any class that can charm just break the game higher end (would you rather have a monk DPSing? Or a charmed enchanter pet? quadding for 300? :P))

R u off ur fkn meds??

[Jimjam]

If we take consumables out of the equation that SK has no drink/mana. Or arrows. That SK becomes a poor warrior with no left hand and a stinky fart every couple of hours. Instead of defensive.

[Lowako]

monks have pretty insane tanking capacity for a not warrior class. they probably have the best tanking capabilities aside from a warrior using disc. high avoidance and high mitigation, plus stonestance discipline (12 sec duration, 60% mitigation, 4 minute reuse), and mend. tstaff proc is also quite good as well, long duration stun that is unresistable. whats not to love? they're also one of the better dps classes in the game, aside from good charmed pets and rogues. also "FD isn't really game breaking" makes me wonder if we're playing the same version of everquest.

Going through a few old parses, monks seem to demolish any SK/Pal in DPS, even monks that are busy not attacking the boss because of pull management. Maybe rangers can compete in DPS with the proper weapons (possibly trueshot discipline? dunno if its been parsed a ton), but no hybrid is even gonna come close to the mitigation and avoidance monks have. Sure, they have much better snap aggro, but so do a lot of classes.

I understand that ivory truly wants people to respect/realize the potential of hybrids, but no amount of dark voodoo secret magic or skill or whatnot is going to change the fact that monks outdps/outmitigate/outpull sk/pal/rangers. I suppose ranger/SK get the advantage of being able to fear/bowkite certain stuff, but monks can solo some neat things with limited clickies (efreeti comes to mind). However, monks seem to have more options, and more lucrative duo/trio options than hybrids.

tldr; monks are beyond good in this goofy game

[Fragged]

The ability to drop off an agro list completely is the single most broken skill in this game. Full stop. PERIOD. Combine this with tools like puppet strings, bladestopper and beads and you have an unfathomable amount of plays you can make. UNFATHOMABLE - You will still be learning secrets to the trade years after you started your monk, there simply is that many.

Other than that you have a class that tanks as well as a warrior when the warrior has plate amor and the monk has leather. In relation to that statement, how well do you think monks are doing in late game Velious when they start getting 40ac on every armor slot?

Lastly but not least if you compare the only 3 classes on a good damage table, warrior monks and rogues. Monks just get NUTS weapons, where rogues get utterly shafted, have sub par ratio weapons in late game and being forced to use Epic for the longest time to maintain the ATK bonus, monks on the other hand can keep the ATK bonus and swap in two 15/18 fists. This closes the DPS gap between monks and rogues ALOT (I often outdps rogues) - And mind you the monk does not need anyone to tank for him or to be hitting from behind.

[jolanar]

Originally Posted by Ivory [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ya, monk can solo ragefire....

But can they camp A4 solo? Or casually take down WW dragons? :P Not typically without burning a bunch of money on wort potions at least.

Sure monks are strong.....nice mix of DPS and tanking potential (same with warrior). But level 60 sk are strong too.....or rogues....or rangers....or....lots of things.

Slightly more efficient DPS and FD isn't really game breaking. Team up with a healer or someone and the thing is going to die sooner or later no matter what you are.

Or for normal soloing (without burning potions), monks don't really outshine other classes at all. They have a very limited window of what they can hunt and run into a hard limit of their power potential.

Where as something like a ranger or sk can go far beyond that upper limit because of how different they are mechanically when using their abilities to do something other than tank and spank.

But that is more smaller group stuff. In a larger group yea monks fill a nice role....decent defensive and great offensive. So, the same group...one has a monk tanking, one has an SK tanking....I would rather take the SK.

The monk does add very slight increase to groups DPS....and can pull better....but the SK and Paladin adds ability to insta-taunt (which in a group at higher end, is prettyyy important). If it is ONLY about the DPS, then sure monks are nice....but, again, when taken in the context of the entire group, it is just a slight increase in the efficiency of stuff dying (though warriors and rogues keep up at level 60, with rangers just a little behind).

So, OP? Nope. They are decent. But things like shamans and any class that can charm just break the game higher end (would you rather have a monk DPSing? Or a charmed enchanter pet? quadding for 300? :P))

Somebody has been drinking too much of their own koolaid.

[Ivory]

Really? There are monks that casually solo camp 22 at A4 in POM?

I would loveeeee to see it. Because the entire time I've been there.....I've never seen anyone attempt it.

Seen solo druids, enchanters, necros, and shamans do it....but never a monk come along and clear it out.

"Could" a monk do it? Sure. They could burn through some healing items (as could ANY OTHER CLASS). But could they do it without a serious plat investment as just normal hunting? Not even close.

[delfi]

Originally Posted by Ivory [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Really? There are monks that casually solo camp 22 at A4 in POM?

I would loveeeee to see it. Because the entire time I've been there.....I've never seen anyone attempt it.

Seen solo druids, enchanters, necros, and shamans do it....but never a monk come along and clear it out.

"Could" a monk do it? Sure. They could burn through some healing items (as could ANY OTHER CLASS). But could they do it without a serious plat investment as just normal hunting? Not even close.

I believe people were commenting on your including monks and rangers/SKs in same league. Not that monks can out solo shaman/charmer against any content. They obviously can't.

Monk isn't going to solo 22 without an insane amount of clicks, he has huge MR and he dunks hard even slowed.

[Lowako]

Originally Posted by Ivory [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Really? There are monks that casually solo camp 22 at A4 in POM?

I would loveeeee to see it. Because the entire time I've been there.....I've never seen anyone attempt it.

Seen solo druids, enchanters, necros, and shamans do it....but never a monk come along and clear it out.

"Could" a monk do it? Sure. They could burn through some healing items (as could ANY OTHER CLASS). But could they do it without a serious plat investment as just normal hunting? Not even close.

Rangers may solo better, but thats not the only criteria for a class being good. Add more people and the monk becomes much, much better

[Ivory]

I believe people were commenting on your including monks and rangers/SKs in same league.

It is strange how people get into this hyper min/max mentality, where a slight difference in DPS and efficiency in killing a mob is what makes a class good or not.

10 people on a raid, let's say overall DPS is 300 (average 30dps each) (but usually in a raid you will have more, so the percentage goes even further down)

A monk joins in, he is UBAARRRRR with 45dps!!! ((but likely the dps isn't really close to double of a rangers equally geared, but I'm being really generous))

Overall dps is 315 now.....an entire increase of 5%. So, a fight that would have taken 360 seconds....now takes 343 seconds .....

In everquest terms, it doesn't mean much (especially higher end raids where more often than not you have way overkill). The mob is still going to die, in 360 seconds or 343 seconds.....everyone still gets pixels....

Is that really the definition of uber we are talking about? :P Ranger, monk, paladin, SK....all uber enough if you gear it and get the high end weapons. Play what you like, put in the time and get gear, and you can "compete" at the high end (IE play a decent role in DPSing the thing down).

I would be really curious to see an SKs dps with pet compared to a monks though. Anyone have numbers to back up their claims on uber monks?

Personally I like paladins / rangers a lot since they are handy off-healers and CC (helps if things get crazy to be able to root off of an enchanter or patch someone). I've saved many a person with just ranger heals :P

[Raev]

Soloing 22 is not exactly the ultimate goal of this game.