Ranger ac parsing (I'm serious)

[Snaggles]

100% agreed. HGL’s are great; I have one and am only missing the other due to laziness. I’m looking for a few hundred more hps but not at a loss for MR.

[Salaryman]

you n00bs are just mad bad and sad about the fact that my range is amazing on a server where you are supposedly greifed from even getting to level 2,

maybe for you n00bs you cant even get to level 2 on RED99 (the only server that matters) and I feel sorry for you.

[sogundordor]

Plan B: shadow knight worn ac test
to compare ranger ac with other class, my sk testing worn ac from 97 to 367

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1. the result is similar to rangers, mitigation gain stops at 200ac
2. can't proof ranger ac is broken, or its both ranger and sk are broken
3. still no trace for soft cap

outside the graph, the average hit rate (being hit) is different~ about 7% difference~
ranger: 38.04%
sk: 31.31%

conclusion:
1. its about avoidance, not mitigation, and avoidance is not related to worn ac
2. ac has the same effect for different class, at least ranger and sk

[Jimjam]

Really appreciate the work you’re putting in. Very interesting.

[Jimjam]

People are saying a worn cap of like 385 AC, I think this cap may have been either very late velious or more likely post melee revamp (luclin?)

I remember a live dev post which explained the monk nerf and it explicitly mentioned the worn AC caps for level 51 and level 60. I’ve not hunted down the quote, but I did find this reference to it:

“the 51 and 60 kunark/early velious hardcaps for melees were 163 and 289”

Take with a pinch of salt! But regardless of the true classic / p99 hard/soft caps it would be nice to use more than 200 AC!

[sogundordor]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People are saying a worn cap of like 385 AC, I think this cap may have been either very late velious or more likely post melee revamp (luclin?)

I remember a live dev post which explained the monk nerf and it explicitly mentioned the worn AC caps for level 51 and level 60. I’ve not hunted down the quote, but I did find this reference to it:

“the 51 and 60 kunark/early velious hardcaps for melees were 163 and 289”

Take with a pinch of salt! But regardless of the true classic / p99 hard/soft caps it would be nice to use more than 200 AC!

thats base on Haynar the Developer said "I added a low level raw ac cap of level * 6 + 25." at 04-23-2014
i know it can't direct apply to lv60, but its logic is "cap goes higher as your level higher" right? cap can't be under 325/385 at lv60

I need some more advice~ how do you read the data/graph?
and about your theory, what will you predict the graph will look like?
and i'll try to get some more data before my lunar new year holiday ends =P

[sogundordor]

Originally Posted by sogundordor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and about your theory, what will you predict the graph will look like?

err.. maybe i'm sleepy~
i mean about your theory, if the target change to a lv50 velious mob, what will you predict the graph will look like?

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by sogundordor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

err.. maybe i'm sleepy~
i mean about your theory, if the target change to a lv50 velious mob, what will you predict the graph will look like?

At the moment I reckon the graph would show the same cut off - there seems to be a cap on worn AC but SK has ways to further lower average hit - perhaps the better defence skill.

have we been using AC buffs on either class? These may be subject to a separate cap and may explain the difference. Likewise did the SK use a shield (or maybe epic which seems to be a pseudo shield)? In the live AC revamp shield ac got added as worn ac but then added again after the cap … many suggest that system is used here (even though it may actually be out of era).

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by sogundordor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

thats base on Haynar the Developer said "I added a low level raw ac cap of level * 6 + 25." at 04-23-2014
i know it can't direct apply to lv60, but its logic is "cap goes higher as your level higher" right? cap can't be under 325/385 at lv60

I need some more advice~ how do you read the data/graph?
and about your theory, what will you predict the graph will look like?
and i'll try to get some more data before my lunar new year holiday ends =P

Interesting, SKs have ~20% more defense and ranger take ~20% more damage.

But SKs have 155 dodge and 200 parry.

Rangers have 170 dodge and 220 parry.

Technically rangers should have a lower mitigation but more avoidance?

This thread has some avoidance/mitigation formulas but we're not sure it is the p99 ones and I'm not smart enough to draw any definitive conclusions.

https://www.eqemulator.org/forums/sh...ad.php?t=40543

I'd still be really curious to see a test with higher level mobs to know if there's a mitigation split at some point for both classes.

[Jimjam]

First of all, I think there are a few parts to the discussion:

How things worked on live (and this changed at least a couple of times in the trilogy era)

How things work here (there have been changes here too, you’ve highlighted one instance). From the great monk nerf live dev post it seems to me Haynar’s by level AC cap is an equation from outside the era (or he just wanted twinking to be more effective than the og devs did).

How things interact (using an unclassic AC system could produce more classic results if mobs are also not classically tuned - they could balance out)

How things are intended to work (pure classic results? More difficult or easier than live? Remove caps?)

With those points in mind and answering your question: It looks to me like there is an ac cap around 200 at 60 for ranger and sk. The fact that the Sk has a different average hit shows this is not due to ac/mitigation squelching mob attack - the SK’s improved defence skill wouldn’t have further lowered the average hit if that was the case.