Abandon DKP?

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Fine. Quarterly DKP adjustments compress the range between highest and lowest DKP possessors so all of this becomes non-existence. If you have a DKP spread of more than 50%, you are ripping off new members.

All members get bumped toward the average, with the severity of the curve as you please. The average DKP guild member suffers no + or - DKP during the adjustment. You can do it monthly if you have a lot of people cycling through, or quarterly, which is the norm.

And that is all one needs to do. Tell your guild members their open bidding is not going to be as predictable or easy for them, easy for no one. Raid and spend becomes the norm, because saving becomes a far less appealing when you are setting yourself up to get the biggest haircut during the adjustment.

Otherwise unadjusted DKP and set asides get fishy and/or unpleasant fast.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by sammoHung [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Honestly, there's no way to please half of the raiders, let alone everybody. I've heard every argument in the book against all of the above (even though I agree) and it always boils down to leadership thinking "Well if we piss off our sweatiest raiders we won't have a raid force - so open DKP bids on everything"

Which I can't say is wrong. But, you definitely do alienate casual players trying to gear their only level 60 - that will never be able to compete with people who have 50% raid attendance and are on their 12th level 60 alt.

I've never seen the larger raiding guilds on this server do open DKP bids on everything in 8 years.

Is that something the smaller or medium sized guilds are doing to keep from losing raiders?

[WarpathEQ]

Imagine wanting to bring back loot counsels in 2025 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by red_demonman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm a big fan of the Bladefrenzy loot system.

Gratz Bladefrenzy!

These are the sort of anti-capitalistic ideas that broke people spend all their time coming up with instead of spending their time getting rich.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by WarpathEQ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Imagine wanting to bring back loot counsels in 2025 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]



Gratz Bladefrenzy!

These are the sort of anti-capitalistic ideas that broke people spend all their time coming up with instead of spending their time getting rich.

It seems much of the issue is guilds setting value to non-raid grunt work, like farming consumables and levelling bot. I’m no political nor economic theorist, but I don’t think antipathy against topdown valuations of labour are anticapitalist. A capitalistic solution would be to have a bidding system for such contracts where people interested in tracking can put forward their best deal, instead of the reward being at a fixed value (often set by individuals or friends of those best positioned to do the PL/track/etc).

[sammoHung]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've never seen the larger raiding guilds on this server do open DKP bids on everything in 8 years.

Is that something the smaller or medium sized guilds are doing to keep from losing raiders?

Oh, you have raided with every guild on all 3 servers? That's how you know it's not a thing?

Currently, Good Guys and Kingdom have open bids on all.

[Jimjam]

Open bids suck. Back in the day we had closed bids: after I bid on some ToV ranger weapons vs Ruffel everytime he took closed bids I always won stuff very close to my max bid (strangely this never happened when other officers were taking bids). However, when we changed to open bids people got too shy to bid and I would often get things for much cheaper.

Clearly there are a lot of shy people who just don't feel able to bid in an open system so open bid sytems are intrinsically flawed(!)

[WarpathEQ]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that CD was referring to no restrictions whatsoever for loot when he said open bids.

I.E. Anyone can bid any amount on the no drop ranger only sword off Vulak even if they don't have a ranger toon that's tagged or known to exist.

For the most part every guild has some sort of parameters whether its mains, 60s, toons on your roster, tiers, ect. Its not just a complete free for all 100% of the time.

[sammoHung]

Originally Posted by WarpathEQ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that CD was referring to no restrictions whatsoever for loot when he said open bids.

I.E. Anyone can bid any amount on the no drop ranger only sword off Vulak even if they don't have a ranger toon that's tagged or known to exist.

For the most part every guild has some sort of parameters whether its mains, 60s, toons on your roster, tiers, ect. Its not just a complete free for all 100% of the time.

Nope, not anymore. You can convert your DKP straight to Plat these days. Doze tears, Vulak Loot rights - whatever you want

[cd288]

Originally Posted by WarpathEQ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that CD was referring to no restrictions whatsoever for loot when he said open bids.

I.E. Anyone can bid any amount on the no drop ranger only sword off Vulak even if they don't have a ranger toon that's tagged or known to exist.

For the most part every guild has some sort of parameters whether its mains, 60s, toons on your roster, tiers, ect. Its not just a complete free for all 100% of the time.

Correct.

And yes have raided on both servers. I don't recall Kingdom having open loot with zero restrictions. If they have recently added that then I guess they are either struggling to retain raiders or everyone has everything they need and doesn't care.

[sammoHung]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Correct.

And yes have raided on both servers. I don't recall Kingdom having open loot with zero restrictions. If they have recently added that then I guess they are either struggling to retain raiders or everyone has everything they need and doesn't care.

A bit of both. I haven't raided with Kingdom since early 2025, but they had just opened up all bids. They allow selling of MQs, LRs, etc. They did it to match Good Guys, who have had that rule for a while now.