Poll item looting or no?

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by Amuk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you know someone has a cof/rbb/fbss/anything really good you just hoop the bitch down in grp pvp and loot it? how is that cool? Yawn whatevs shits gona be what its gona be.

TBH, I don't think Ivandyr's hoop should be usable versus players. It's lame.

[Harrison]

You'll be dancing that line of "classic" and "unbalanced" a lot, but I definitely agree.

There are mechanics that need to be fucked with in order for this to even be feasible. Hoops are broken.

[Rushmore]

We know item loot doesn't work and never has worked.

If your going to do item loot do it the TARWINE method on Altergate

1 item that is unequipped. So essentially you can go through there bags and loot something. That way there is risk vrs reward but you can't loot there precious pixel.

In late game stages you end up getting good pixels.

[greatdane]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've stated my opinion before in a few places, but I'll go again.

I like item loot. It feels more realistic than coin loot only. If I kill someone, I should be able to loot something. Droppable items become commodities, and banks are exceedingly useful, bringing players back to cities. No drop items which are never used on a blue server will actually be good, just to fill slots.

I think item loot should be something like:
Only 1 piece.
Excluding no-drop items.
Excluding primary, secondary, or range.
Including bag slots.
Not a +8/-8 level spread for item loot. Something like +4/-4 or +2/-2. Otherwise, just normal pvp/coin.

Some predict players will be upset if they camp an item for an extended time only to lose it (like an fbss). Well, camping an item is always a choice. They could choose to not camp the item, and obtain one through pvp.

Just my opinion. Having no item loot limits a potentially large aspect of the game.

Much of the typical player's enjoyment of the game hinges on slowly building up a character through effort and cooperation, and on securing what you've earned over time. It's one of the most fundamental appeals of an MMORPG, which Everquest still is whether or not you throw PvP into the mix. The ability to wear the gear you've collected is what evens out the inherently terrible class balance as much as can be expected - a few classes will always be weak or overpowered no matter what, but it's a fact that this is only hugely amplified when people have to PvP naked, half-naked or in the awful no-drop gear you can get this early in the game.

As for the level range, anything less than 8 levels seems impossible to me. With a few hundred players at the very most, you have to be really careful not to create an environment where it's hard to find people to PvP against at all. Look at blue99 with its up to 700+ players online - people below the endgame have a really hard time finding players to group with. If itemloot doesn't make it harder to find PvP (which it probably will because people will necessarily try to avoid it more than without itemloot) then a +/- 4 range certainly will, and especially +/- 2.

If you devs do choose to let a poll affect your decision, please go with the one I made. This one is flawed and obviously tries to skew the numbers by making it a choice between "item and coin loot" and "no". As you can see in the original stickied thread, by far the most people said no to itemloot and yes to coin, and nobody is against coin loot so it's manipulative to lump the two together and force people to vote yes or no to both. You can see how inconsistent the votes are between the two threads as a result.

[greatdane]

1 item that is unequipped. So essentially you can go through there bags and loot something. That way there is risk vrs reward but you can't loot there precious pixel.

If there has to be itemloot, that seems like a reasonable compromise. It'll retain the element of tangible reward for PvP without completely wrecking gameplay by affecting what people wear. I'm not against losing something when dying in PvP, but I don't see what we gain by basically further widening the gap between melee and caster to the point where melee becomes virtually unplayable. The really interesting PvP happens over raids and other high-end content, and that's where people will have valuable stuff in their bags. It also avoids retarded shit like PvPing naked or bagging your stuff to circumvent itemloot in the first place.

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by greatdane [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The ability to wear the gear you've collected is what evens out the inherently terrible class balance as much as can be expected - a few classes will always be weak or overpowered no matter what, but it's a fact that this is only hugely amplified when people have to PvP naked, half-naked or in the awful no-drop gear you can get this early in the game.

So the gear that you have becomes even more valuable. No drop items even more so. Sounds fun to me :P

As for the level range, anything less than 8 levels seems impossible to me. With a few hundred players at the very most, you have to be really careful not to create an environment where it's hard to find people to PvP against at all. Look at blue99 with its up to 700+ players online - people below the endgame have a really hard time finding players to group with. If itemloot doesn't make it harder to find PvP (which it probably will because people will necessarily try to avoid it more than without itemloot) then a +/- 4 range certainly will, and especially +/- 2.

I mean +8/-8 to pvp in general, but there would be no item loot unless the players were in like a +2/-2 range of each other. Only coin.

If you devs do choose to let a poll affect your decision, please go with the one I made.

We don't make decisions based on the polls. My post was my opinion only, not necessarily what the server will be. If I played, I'd want it to be hardcore.

Originally Posted by Rushmore [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If your going to do item loot do it the TARWINE method on Altergate

1 item that is unequipped. So essentially you can go through there bags and loot something. That way there is risk vrs reward but you can't loot there precious pixel.

In late game stages you end up getting good pixels.

That's a cool idea as well.

[zixxer]

I don't get it, why do people always say everyone will run around naked and avoid pvp if it's item loot? I played on a item loot server for like 4 years, I always wore gear, and I constantly went out looking for pvp.

And if someone does get something good from you, what do you think they're going to do with it, put it in their bank and admire it? No, they're going to equip it on one of their characters. And guess what you may end up killing said character someday and getting it back.

[Knuckle]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TBH, I don't think Ivandyr's hoop should be usable versus players. It's lame.

hoops got nerfed hard on vztz, they were 'gettable' but not easily. keep them lore and make lyguna*an ugly LOLOLOLOL* a super rare spawn, like manastone rare.

[Doors]

I don't care if item loot goes in but it's lame because casters can run around naked PKing melees easily. Melees do not have this advantage gearless.

[greatdane]

@nilbog

But do you at least acknowledge all the enormous problems that come into the picture with itemloot? It's like nobody who's pro-itemloot even mentions them. You're welcome to believe that itemloot is worthwhile despite these problems, but it's a little strange how those who argue in favor of itemloot won't even discuss what it does to gameplay.

What's your goal with this server, anyway? It's not a rhetorical question, I just think it would help these discussions if we knew what you aim to provide. I assumed it was to provide classic Everquest with the PvP that made VZTZ popular, both for those who miss PvP and as a way to let players regulate themselves which they can't do on blue99. Itemloot doesn't factor into either of those.

I know you don't make decisions based on polls, but I'm sure you at least notice what the majority wants. If you completely disregard everything that gets discussed in this entire forum, you should just let us know so we can stop bothering.