Occupy Wall Street - Success

[Klath]

Protesting the fact that the wealthy are able to game the system to the detriment of everyone else seems like a pretty worthwhile endeavour.

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[Aadill]

Oh yeah and for more controversial topics.. I haven't forgotten them as they are key issues that critics think OWS and other Occupations are all about gimmegimmegimme:

I do not know what to think of single payer healthcare. The problem for me starts with the fact that the costs of things that require health insurance keep going up because there is a collective pool of money from which to grab. The system is inflating itself because everyone has to have it and the influx of new accounts as required with Obamacare has made operations even more expensive. It was a shit move that tried to tie in a socialist construct with only doing a halfassed job at it (the option bill cannot work).

Other entitlements are abused as well. I do not like this. They should be used for people who genuinely need it. Dorothea Dix was shut down a few years ago here in Raleigh. Some of the people who were being sheltered there are now in prison, homeless, or out on their own with no help whatsoever. This is akin to medieval times and the asylums. What the fuck, THESE are the people that need help. Those that abuse things such as EBT, welfare, etc. are the problem. The system itself wouldn't be abused if there was better oversight. These are conditional issues that have cropped up over the years. They are problems that need fixing by repairing the system, not eradicating it. I could maybe go for state-level reproductions of the same system but then you're going into more detail of unequal statehood. That should NOT be the case in this country.

[vaylorie]

Originally Posted by pickled_heretic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

it's lazy to assume the movement is homogenous. do all republicans want a complete abolition of abortion or a flat tax? do all democrats want to ban guns? are all tea partiers complete loons? you can find members of each party that have said these things, to assume that they represent the movement as a whole is absurd.

I agree that the movement has no central message. Another point of my initial post here (and other posts on the R&F forum re: OWS) has been that some of the things that OWS 'stands for' are awesome and will be supported almost universally regardless of political party if there was some form of standardization around messaging.

That being said, there is no central message so you say that these aren't OWS tenants and I say that they are. Both of our understandings come from things that we have seen & heard both personally talking to occupiers as well as seeing their signage across camps around the nation.

Don't tell me it's not about these things when this stuff is all over their camps.

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by Klath [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Protesting the fact that the wealthy are able to game the system to the detriment of everyone else seems like a pretty worthwhile endeavour.

Wells Fargo's absorbed branch of Wachovia did just that. They were sued for it the other day:

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...29-712747.html

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by vaylorie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree that the movement has no central message. Another point of my initial post here (and other posts on the R&F forum re: OWS) has been that some of the things that OWS 'stands for' are awesome and will be supported almost universally regardless of political party if there was some form of standardization around messaging.

That being said, there is no central message so you say that these aren't OWS tenants and I say that they are. Both of our understandings come from things that we have seen & heard both personally talking to occupiers as well as seeing their signage across camps around the nation.

Don't tell me it's not about these things when this stuff is all over their camps.

I can agree with this sentiment. It's truly a downfall of some of the larger Occupations. Raleigh is well put together because of smaller numbers and a chance for people to get together and speak in groups. Chapel Hill has done the same in an attempt at something that has been referred to as "visioning," it has promoted a more solidified set of principles and ideas with which to evaluate, but by no means does each person have to repeat what everyone else is saying. Those that are on the fringe tend to get pushed out or walk away when they realize that they cannot promote their message at large. That is a problem in places like Philly or LA or OWS.. not everyone knows each other but the media knows where to pick up juicy bits.

[pickled_heretic]

Originally Posted by vaylorie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree that the movement has no central message.

so why did you post that tripe in the first place? trying to score a few laughs w/ your friends and people who already agree with you? because you aren't going to convince anyone w/ these childish tactics. take your sophistry somewhere else.

[pickled_heretic]

you can't simultaneously say that the movement has no message while also saying that the message that the movement represents is full of extremist rhetoric.

unless you're a moran LOL

[Aadill]

^ also this. you're reading bias, not evaluating, vaylorie. there is a massive difference.

[pickled_heretic]

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[Aadill]

I have spoken to Tea Party members who are very intelligent and very well put together, who end up agreeing with just about everything the Occupations are saying...but that picture is what the media showed.