Best tank class (group edition)

[Erati]

Originally Posted by astuce999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Pallie story is a great one, and why people love EQ.

Since this is a tank debate thread, and only because of that because otherwise it really was a great story and the telling of it was wonderfully executed, if we were to replace the pallie with a bard in your story, the Expet would have been immediately charmed by the bard so that the group could continue killing fast and then slowed before it did any damage to anyone to finish it off.

Bard wins.

Astuce

Sorry the bard was oom from having to constantly charm throughout the entire group since no true tank. Group dies in this situation.

Paladin wins.

[Cecily]

I, too, enjoy a heated discussion about a game that came out in 1999 in the present year.


I think soul reaver was too puzzle-oriented to be much fun.

[Cen]

Btw I posted earlier that I voted ranger as a joke but if you were being even 1% serious bard is 100% a better tank and I cant imagine even a little debate. 252 defense skill vs 200, similar minor defense skills, armor that has,more AC, hp, and resists on average, a class that builds tank stats anyway, more aggro on the songs that count, more utility, and better slow on demand. They only cant DPS as well as a ranger WHILE tanking but by 5 chanting can pull 80+ with a drum while naked. Theres no contest in tanking.

But just get a paladin. Damn.

[Cecily]

Yes, but they aren't bards and have lightning swords so ranger clearly wins.

[Danth]

Ranger vs Bard as a tank? Odd poll, neither of them will typically be sought for that job unless there's none of the actual tank types around. Both can tank when necessary but have a certain opportunity cost involved with so doing. Between the two the Bard's potentially better, although in practice the massive disparity in the quality of individual Bards means the Ranger tends to perform more consistently.


Danth

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Allow me to ask you this about pallies. Let’s say another melee has 2 bags of these, what advantage is a pally still giving your group?

https://wiki.project1999.com/Forlorn...of_Rolfron_Zek

Damage-free stun. Builds aggro on mezzed targets while tanking. Holy Might deals damage, making it the primary choice versus engaged targets that cast, but minimizing its versatility except when needing to break mez after enough aggro has been generated to minimize the time between current target's death and new target's engagement. Also, one well-timed stun can save a lot of mana elsewhere (puller/cc about to eat a nuke/dot/dispel) and, assuming the stun isn't resisted, it gives the tank ample time to move out of los and prep another stun because the mob will most likely cast again once los is reestablished.

Healing puller. Saves cleric/shaman/etc mana and redirects incoming mobs onto paladin, making the enchanter's job of containing the adds that much easier.

Wave of Healing. Underused because of the high mana cost, but its low cast-time is a lifesaver when sub-59 (no Celestial Cleansing) and LoH is down. Even if only one group member is low hp and LoH is available, the mana spent on WoH is often worth using instead. With any combination of C/FT/PoTG, regaining that mana won't take long.

Wave of Healing also has the potential to heal +1500hp across the board, assuming full group; individually it's often just enough to keep members alive amid a train. If the group is running to zoneline because of a train, paladin casts WoH asap or runs ahead, then casts to have a head start on the train. WoH has a decent enough range and acts as an aggro magnet. One cast on the group and paladin likely has all of the train aggroed, allowing them to run it elsewhere, keeping it preoccupied before casting DA and doubling back to the zoneline.

Other tank classes can do the same for aggro with a Tunareberry/Shiny Brass Idol, but both items are lore, and Prayers of Life are too expensive.

Lull. Chain pulls made easy with less charisma; single pulls made possible with more charisma. No line of sight required and, from level 45 onward, no mana required with Deepwater Vambraces.

Cancel Magic. Allows paladin to pull submerged mobs from above water--ideal in zones such as Karnor's where the moat is pretty much FFA (not that the entire zone
doesn't fall into that same category during peak hours). Other classes also have Cancel Magic of course, but most have too many other, more important spells and would rather not reserve a slot for it. Eventually, paladins don't even need to reserve a spell slot for it because of Deepwater Gauntlets.

The spellbook paladins have appears bland at first glance due to their overall lack of damage output and colorful magic. However, that redundancy is not without variation which, no matter how subtle, can easily translate into an averted death or all out wipe. With the spells that knights have, all roads lead to Rome. Stun #1 resisted? Cast stun #2 or #3, then 1 again if necessary. Celestial Cleansing on cooldown? Another member has low hp aggro? Move into range for Lay on Hands or cast Wave of Healing. Shadow Knights work within similar parameters, having access to 3 different versions of Feign Death and a slew of lifetaps to provide additional survivability when Feign Death fails and/or when needing to wait out mobs that cast.

Paladins have to make the most out of multiple temporary fixes, instead of falling back on one or two reliable spells like Shadow Knights. But three stuns, a weapon stun proc, and bash can all be turned into one drawn out interruption which amounts to having no buffs dispelled and no spell damage on the tank (assuming the mobs aren't immune). Because of this, Paladins aren't exactly reliant on junk buffs, a convenient feature of the class which opens up more slots for quality buffs/bard songs.

Other tank/paper tank classes have their own strengths obviously and, depending on the camp/needs of the group, those abilities can be used with more desirable results. But imo paladins are the all-around safest bet in a random group of strangers. Bards have the best aggro, cc and pulls. Warriors have the best discs and ac/hp. Shadow Knights, Paladins, Monks, and Rangers all fall somewhere in between those two classes--the raid tank and the paper tank--depending on their gear, skill, and level (spells/abilities available to them).

[zarza]

Enchanter is best tanker in group contents if you geared


1. Very easy to keep aggro with tash
2. Your tanker can use Mez Stun Root Blur Calm Buff etc.
3. Your tanker's DPS is better than rog. (with charm pet)
4. Easy to keep mana with ToT if caster mobs there. + (C2+GoB+FT8+Potg) =48tick





________________
Zarza <Aftermath> https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Zarza

[Oleris]

bard snare+slow and circle kite... great or greatest tank?

[Foxplay]

Originally Posted by Oleris [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

bard snare+slow and circle kite... great or greatest tank?

Greatest provided nothing that summons gets mixed in....

[Vexenu]

Paladins are similar to Bards and Enchanters in that they have the right tools to cover up other players' mistakes. They do this with their very strong CC in the form of roots and stuns. But at the same time, unlike Bards and Enchanters, they can also heal. Which means they can save your ass when you're one second from taking a dirt nap. Clerics theoretically have the same toolkit, but you can't really play a Cleric aggressively enough to take advantage of all those spells. The Paladin, in contrast, by virtue of being unencumbered with the duty of primary healing, is empowered to use those other nice Cleric spells (stun, root, blind, soothe) much more aggressively. Basically, a good Paladin should be able to take his entire group up a notch. He can turn a mediocre group into a good one, and a good group into a great one, and in a great group a Paladin tank will almost completely trivialize all groupable content. You have instant aggro, stunlocking, rooting, single pulling with soothe, healing, an instant emergency heal, an invuln and a rez. Seriously, with that toolbox at your disposal you can pretty much group with five blind monkeys and still somehow find a way to hold the group together.

Another nice perk of Paladins that I haven't seen mentioned yet is the humble Deepwater Bracer. It's a really amazing item in the right situation. Between it and your normally casted stun you can pretty much totally lock down casters. When I was leveling my Paladin on Red awhile back I was in the low 50s and still wearing mostly Bronze, but managed to snag a Deepwater Bracer. Because of that one item I was able to successfully tank in Chardok for a severely undergeared group. That would literally have been impossible with any other tank because of the constant nuking from all the casters. I mean, it's a 4 second stun with a 6 second cast. You can literally just spam it and the mob is stunlocked 2/3 of the time it's in camp. That's insane, especially in a place like Chardok where you're otherwise getting hit with Ice Comets and gravity fluxes all the time.

And of course, the Deepwater Helm. Mana-free heal something like 700 hp per minute. Not as useful in a full group situation but absolutely amazing in duos/trios, especially when paired with a Shaman or Necro, or when duoing with another melee.

The DW armor set as a whole is a really nice set as far as its clickies go. Definitely one of the top Kunark armor sets, with every piece besides the legs being very useful.