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#32
03-28-2025, 11:04 PM
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Let me simplify my post on how to determine weapon DPS. This is useful when trying to compare 1h weapons and 2h weapons.
The data being used can be found below in these Youtube links. Download links to Log files are in the video descriptions. https://youtu.be/Ub0bfwyKpE0 - 10 min FM Giant Parse https://youtu.be/YXh1lQyRZ_A - 10 min Corudoth Parse ============================================ Corudoth Epic Fist Primary Hand (645 Hits, 64 misses, over 553 seconds) Log Start Time: [Fri Nov 22 19:54:53 2024] Log End Time: [Fri Nov 22 20:04:06 2024] ============================================ Damage value = 44 - 17 instances Damage value = 43 - 16 instances Damage value = 42 - 20 instances Damage value = 41 - 23 instances Damage value = 40 - 17 instances Damage value = 39 - 24 instances Damage value = 38 - 22 instances Damage value = 37 - 24 instances Damage value = 36 - 23 instances Damage value = 35 - 22 instances Damage value = 34 - 17 instances Damage value = 33 - 24 instances Damage value = 32 - 20 instances Damage value = 31 - 18 instances Damage value = 30 - 21 instances Damage value = 29 - 26 instances Damage value = 28 - 21 instances Damage value = 27 - 205 instances Damage value = 26 - 4 instances Damage value = 25 - 4 instances Damage value = 24 - 5 instances Damage value = 23 - 10 instances Damage value = 22 - 4 instances Damage value = 21 - 8 instances Damage value = 20 - 6 instances Damage value = 19 - 6 instances Damage value = 18 - 7 instances Damage value = 17 - 5 instances Damage value = 16 - 4 instances Damage value = 15 - 6 instances Damage value = 14 - 4 instances Damage value = 13 - 5 instances Damage value = 12 - 5 instances Damage value = 11 - 3 instances Damage value = 0 - 64 instances (misses) 21% below Average, 29% at Average, 50% above Average (19855 Damage / 710 Swings) = 27.96 Average Damage Per Weapon Swing 710 swings in 553 seconds = 1.28 swings per second at 34% haste including Double Attacks 27.96 Average Damage Per Weapon Swing * 1.28 Swings Per Second = 35.79 DPS ============================================== Corudoth Stave of Shielding Off Hand (276 hits, 26 misses, over 553 seconds) Log Start Time: [Fri Nov 22 19:54:53 2024] Log End Time: [Fri Nov 22 20:04:06 2024] ============================================== Damage value = 68 - 4 instances Damage value = 67 - 4 instances Damage value = 66 - 2 instances Damage value = 65 - 6 instances Damage value = 64 - 3 instances Damage value = 63 - 2 instances Damage value = 62 - 4 instances Damage value = 61 - 4 instances Damage value = 60 - 1 instance Damage value = 59 - 4 instances Damage value = 58 - 5 instances Damage value = 57 - 8 instances Damage value = 56 - 1 instance Damage value = 55 - 3 instances Damage value = 54 - 2 instances Damage value = 53 - 4 instances Damage value = 52 - 6 instances Damage value = 51 - 5 instances Damage value = 50 - 5 instances Damage value = 49 - 3 instances Damage value = 48 - 5 instances Damage value = 47 - 3 instances Damage value = 46 - 5 instances Damage value = 45 - 4 instances Damage value = 44 - 1 instance Damage value = 43 - 4 instances Damage value = 42 - 7 instances Damage value = 41 - 6 instances Damage value = 40 - 7 instances Damage value = 39 - 4 instances Damage value = 38 - 3 instances Damage value = 37 - 7 instances Damage value = 36 - 3 instances Damage value = 35 - 4 instances Damage value = 34 - 89 instances Damage value = 32 - 1 instance Damage value = 30 - 1 instance Damage value = 29 - 2 instances Damage value = 27 - 4 instances Damage value = 26 - 3 instances Damage value = 24 - 2 instances Damage value = 22 - 8 instances Damage value = 21 - 2 instances Damage value = 20 - 5 instances Damage value = 17 - 3 instances Damage value = 16 - 1 instance Damage value = 15 - 4 instances Damage value = 14 - 2 instances Damage value = 12 - 3 instances Damage value = 11 - 1 instance Damage value = 10 - 1 instance Damage value = 9 - 2 instances Damage value = 5 - 2 instances Damage value = 3 - 1 instance Damage value = 0 - 26 instances (misses) 25% below Average, 29% at Average, 46% above Average (10964 Damage / 302 Swings ) = 36.3 Average Damage Per Weapon Swing 302 swings in 553 seconds = 0.54 Swings Per Second at 34% haste including Double Attacks 36.3 Average Damage Per Weapon Swing * 0.54 Swings Per Second = 19.6 DPS ================================================== = Eldak Howlingbear Epic Fist Primary Hand (469 Hits, 261 Misses, over 552 seconds) Log Start Time: [Fri Nov 22 16:30:04 2024] Log End Time: [Fri Nov 22 17:00:04 2024] ================================================== = Damage value = 44 - 6 instances Damage value = 43 - 4 instances Damage value = 42 - 6 instances Damage value = 41 - 7 instances Damage value = 40 - 1 instance Damage value = 39 - 6 instances Damage value = 38 - 3 instances Damage value = 37 - 6 instances Damage value = 36 - 6 instances Damage value = 35 - 8 instances Damage value = 34 - 9 instances Damage value = 33 - 4 instances Damage value = 32 - 15 instances Damage value = 31 - 10 instances Damage value = 30 - 12 instances Damage value = 29 - 16 instances Damage value = 28 - 9 instances Damage value = 27 - 42 instances Damage value = 26 - 16 instances Damage value = 25 - 8 instances Damage value = 24 - 11 instances Damage value = 23 - 29 instances Damage value = 22 - 12 instances Damage value = 21 - 20 instances Damage value = 20 - 18 instances Damage value = 19 - 15 instances Damage value = 18 - 21 instances Damage value = 17 - 14 instances Damage value = 16 - 26 instances Damage value = 15 - 24 instances Damage value = 14 - 24 instances Damage value = 13 - 14 instances Damage value = 12 - 13 instances Damage value = 11 - 6 instances Damage value = 10 - 28 instances Damage value = 0 - 261 instances (misses) 76% below Average, 6% at Average, 18% above Average 10807 Damage / 730 Swings = 14.8 Average Damage Per Weapon Swing 730 swings in 552 seconds = 1.32 swings per second at 34% haste including Double Attacks 14.8 Average Damage Per Weapon Swing * 1.32 Swings Per Second = 19.54 DPS ================================================== == Eldak Howlingbear Stave of Shielding Off Hand (213 Hits, 92 Misses, over 552 seconds) Log Start Time: [Fri Nov 22 16:30:04 2024] Log End Time: [Fri Nov 22 17:00:04 2024] ================================================== == Damage value = 68 - 1 instance Damage value = 66 - 3 instances Damage value = 65 - 2 instances Damage value = 64 - 3 instances Damage value = 61 - 4 instances Damage value = 58 - 1 instance Damage value = 57 - 1 instance Damage value = 56 - 2 instances Damage value = 55 - 1 instance Damage value = 54 - 1 instance Damage value = 53 - 2 instances Damage value = 52 - 1 instance Damage value = 51 - 2 instances Damage value = 50 - 3 instances Damage value = 47 - 1 instance Damage value = 46 - 2 instances Damage value = 44 - 6 instances Damage value = 43 - 1 instance Damage value = 42 - 3 instances Damage value = 41 - 2 instances Damage value = 40 - 4 instances Damage value = 39 - 1 instance Damage value = 38 - 4 instances Damage value = 37 - 7 instances Damage value = 36 - 1 instance Damage value = 35 - 1 instance Damage value = 34 - 23 instances Damage value = 33 - 4 instances Damage value = 32 - 7 instances Damage value = 31 - 5 instances Damage value = 30 - 3 instances Damage value = 29 - 7 instances Damage value = 27 - 2 instances Damage value = 26 - 7 instances Damage value = 25 - 2 instances Damage value = 24 - 4 instances Damage value = 23 - 3 instances Damage value = 22 - 3 instances Damage value = 20 - 3 instances Damage value = 19 - 7 instances Damage value = 18 - 4 instances Damage value = 17 - 6 instances Damage value = 16 - 4 instances Damage value = 15 - 3 instances Damage value = 14 - 6 instances Damage value = 13 - 2 instances Damage value = 12 - 4 instances Damage value = 11 - 2 instances Damage value = 10 - 5 instances Damage value = 9 - 4 instances Damage value = 8 - 4 instances Damage value = 7 - 5 instances Damage value = 6 - 2 instances Damage value = 5 - 7 instances Damage value = 4 - 1 instance Damage value = 3 - 1 instance Damage value = 2 - 13 instances Damage value = 0 - 92 instances (misses) 74% below Average, 7% at Average, 19% above Average 5905 Damage / 305 Swings = 19.36 Average Damage Per Weapon Swing 305 swings in 552 seconds = 0.55 swings per second at 34% haste including Double Attacks 19.36 Average Damage Per Weapon Swing * 0.55 Swings Per Second = 10.65 DPS ===== Analysis ===== 1. For this experiment, Corudoth is the control mob. This is because Corudoth is level 5 and has 200k HP. A level 50+ player has a 45+ level difference compared to Corudoth. Level difference is a major factor in how Average Damage Per Weapon Swing is mitigated. A level difference of 45+ should show the highest possible Average Damage Per Weapon Swing for a given set of weapons practically speaking. Trying to get Average Damage Per Weapon Swing values on random level 1 mobs is difficult because a level 50+ player will kill a level 1 mob in one hit. 2. Practically speaking, any mob that is higher level than Corudoth should take less Average Damage Per Weapon Swing from a level 50+ player. Therefore Corudoth is the Average Damage Per Weapon Swing ceiling for a given set of weapons when testing Average Damage Per Weapon Swing on a level 50+ player. 3. At level 52, a Monk with Epic Fist in their primary hand will deal between 10 damage and 44 damage per hit. The average of these two damage values is 27 damage. There were 205 instances of 27 damage in the Corudoth data set for the Epic Fist in the Monk's primary hand. The next closest damage value was 29, with only 26 instances. The average of all the damage values in the Corudoth data set for the Epic Fist in primary hand is 27.96, which is only slightly higher than 27. This shows the Average Damage Per Weapon Swing ceiling is the average between the minimum damage and the maximum damage of the weapon. As mobs get more difficult, the Average Damage Per Weapon Swing will always be lower than the Average Damage Per Weapon Swing ceiling. 4. When fighting a level 50 mob as a level 52 Monk with Epic Fist in their primary hand, the average of all the damage values for the Epic Fist in primary hand was 14.8 damage. This shows that the level 50 mob is reducing the Average Damage Per Weapon Swing ceiling of 27 down to 14.8. 14.8 / 27 = 0.55. This means XP mobs within a few levels of a 50+ player are reducing the player's Average Damage Per Weapon Swing by roughly half compared to the Average Damage Per Weapon Swing ceiling. 5. By using Corudoth as the Average Damage Per Weapon Swing ceiling, we can simply multiply the Average Damage Per Weapon Swing of the weapon by a scalar between 0.1 and 1.0, where 1.0 is the Average Damage Per Weapon Swing dealt to Corudoth, and 0.1 is the Average Damage Per Weapon Swing dealt to the hardest enemy to damage in the game. I call this scalar "Mitigation Offset". Thus far the rule of thumb seems to be ~0.5 is a good assumption to make for what the Mitigation Offset is when dealing with XP mobs within a few levels of a 50+ player, assuming your melee skills are trained up to their maximum. When looking at a raid mob like Avatar of War, you would want to use a lower Mitigation Offset like 0.25. 6. Average Damage Per Weapon Swing includes the chance to miss, so you can simply multiply the Average Damage Per Weapon Swing by the number of swings per second to get DPS. 7. This simple formula is good for comparing 1h and 2h weapons, because it can show you when one set of weapons will deal more damage than the other. Sometimes one weapon set will become better than another weapon set as the Mitigation Offset value changes. This is a function of the main hand damage bonus. The higher the main hand damage bonus of a 2h weapon is compared to a 1h weapon, the more likely a 2h weapon will out damage a 1h weapon set at a lower Mitigation Offset value. ===== Formula ===== ((Weapon Min Damage + Weapon Max Damage) / 2) * Mitigation Offset * Swings Per Second = Weapon DPS
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#33
03-29-2025, 12:55 PM
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DW vs 2h is a contested topic for monks. Outside anyone with an Abashi or Bo Staff of Trorsmang, that is. There are a number of very good options for 1h and at 60 a Peacebringer is on par with a Priceless 2hb. Triple attack favors 2h but those quality 1h ratios are more plentiful.
With rangers the best 1h is a Baton of Flame. A weapon also bid on by monks. It tends to be priced far higher than a Shovel off Gozz or the Meljeldin. With a lower dual skill for rangers DW isn’t as competitive. Not to mention as a casting class a 2h lets you jolt off Call of Flame aggro (if being used to stop gaters), snare or nuke without any dps loss. The path of upgrading a ranger in simplicity is: Level to 60 with something decent, get a raid weapon over all else. Ideally a 2h. As for other gear, cheaper MR items can take you a long way. Tribal boots, Tranix crown, Jacinth rings, Imbued Granite Spaulders, etc. I still use a Loddy shield because those svs are hard to pass up. Outside the BFG maybe my second favorite item is the Ring of Stealthy Shadows. A 2 sec invis on a ranger is just too good to pass up. | ||
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#34
03-29-2025, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Sadly there aren't two 1h weapons with a 50% slow proc. So you won't get a better chance at procing slow specifically when comparing Earthcaller and Swarmcaller.
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#35
03-29-2025, 01:16 PM
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^
Both epic and swarmcaller have same percentage and duration. Earthcall has a different slow message so it doesnt confuse anyone on raids. I carry both, so I have a one-click option either way. If root jousting in theory a Swarmcaller has twice as high a chance to proc since it’s almost twice the delay. Even higher than that if it’s not paired with worn haste. Like DSM said though, same “procs per minute” if you keep auto attack on. Additionally, if jousting a double attack with a 29 damage weapon is usually more than a DW cycle. | ||
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#36
03-29-2025, 07:16 PM
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It sure feels nice when Swarmcaller procs on the very first swing and you get to use the Woodsman the entire fight. On the other hand, one fight today I had the first proc on the final killing blow, and that's a lot less nice.
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#37
03-30-2025, 01:17 PM
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It’s really the hp savings averaged than anything else. With root, a bow, and a 2h you can whittle down anything that won’t summon when it’s too close for comfort.
It blows my mind how many raiding level 60’s don’t at minimum have tash sticks and a Swarmcaller. It’s like 1/8th or 1/16th the cost of a Truncheon of Doom and can save your group or even raid. | ||
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#39
03-30-2025, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
I use Tash Stick quite a bit on my Shaman so I can get an unresistable -63 MR on resistant mobs when you include Malo. Makes it easier to land Slow, Root, Epic Dot, etc. If the mob is still resisting a lot after it is Slowed, a Malosini will make subsequent slows easier if the fight lasts long enough.
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Last edited by DeathsSilkyMist; 03-30-2025 at 03:13 PM..
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