POLL: Classic resists or Null's bastardized VZ/TZ rehash?

[MilkyMilkyCamel]

Originally Posted by tmoneynegro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Then you would be completely wrong on that point. He's trying to force us to accept the TZVZ, not similar to regular EQ at all resist system.

Null has already said that he wants to implement it, have people try it, and get feedback about it. He did not say that we're receiving some permanent changes to the resist system. I'm not trying to single you out and argue with you just because you tried to issue a counterpoint to my post, but the facts just don't agree with what you're saying. Implementing changes in a beta phase for testing and feedback seems completely rational and acceptable; there's nothing being "forced" onto the players for release at this point.

Originally Posted by tmoneynegro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's no guessing for how it affects PvP, we already played it on TZVZ. It plays like a completely different game and is nothing like EQ classic.

Well, Null's formulas are supposedly not straight copies from TZVZ, but that remains to be seen. If the play-testing reveals that the changes (whether they're just like TZVZ, very similar, or completely different) are detrimental to the goal of providing a classic feel for PvP, I'm sure they'll change it. Sure, you have a right to be concerned about similarities to TZVZ, but fanatically opposing the testing of a new system during a beta phase is a bit inappropriate.

As a beta tester, it's your (voluntary) job to test the changes and report how they affect the game. After testing, answer: Which of the changes specifically bring the server further from classic PvP? Which ones seem to be a move in the right direction? What other approaches might be useful to consider in the task of bringing the server closer to a recreation of EQ classic? We should all be here to engage in reasonably polite, logical, constructive discussions so that we can all benefit from a high-quality end product. We should all feel free to voice our concerns, but keep them in check, given that we're discussing proposed changes to be tested in a beta version.

I think people in general can sometimes forget that beta does work toward a release date, but not in a completely linear sense. There is not a measurable amount of progress that can necessarily be completed within a set time frame. The time required to test and review the effects of a particular change can be estimated pretty accurately, but the time required to actually identify the "correct" change for something cannot be known. Sometimes, the most progress you can get out of a week is finding out that another option doesn't work. Not every change is put in because it is known to be desired in the end product.

We're baking a delicious cake from scratch, and adjusting the recipe. Some iterations of the cake are better than others, but on the whole, it's improving. The cake isn't perfect yet, but the good news is that we get to taste-test a lot of cake in the meantime.

Originally Posted by tmoneynegro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol, well open your eyes because it just happened. Why do you think there are so many angry posts.

Your leaps in logic make me wonder if I might be responding to a troll post right now, but I write this anyway for the people who are genuinely concerned about this matter. And if you're not trolling, I hope you will not be so defensive as to take offense to my response. It's meant as admonishment, not scolding, and I'm just trying to help everyone here to adopt a healthier, more rational outlook on things.

TL;DR? Another helpful link for you: https://www.ncjrs.gov/ondcppubs/publ...yths_facts.pdf

[lindz]

Milky, what is the point in testing a system that is not even close to the classic resist system? What do the developers gain by knowing that their custom system works like it is supposed to or doesn't. Does this help them get closer to implementing the classic resists? I don't think it does. I think they are trying to implement their own custom rules into a server that has promised to be classic and people are VERY upset over that.

We have been looking forward to this for years and to have them decide they are making a custom pvp server is really disheartening. A lot of people feel this way about the dynamic pvp system as well. Classic is the RZ/TZ/VZ or SZ rules not some new fangled cool idea. We would play on one of the many other emu's if we wanted custom. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

edit: At the end of the day, yes I'll test and post feedback when the servers come up. Just explaining why people are not happy with this idea.

[MilkyMilkyCamel]

Responding to lindz,

It was my impression that the majority of community feedback over the past two weeks regarding the resist system was that there were too many full resists / full lands happening, and too few partial resists (compared to classic, I mean, and not just some players' preferences).

The resist system they had in place was not exactly the same as the classic system, correct? And that is because the exact resist check formulas for classic are unknown?

If the answer to either of those questions is a definite, verifiable "no" -- without any exceptions or additional modifying clauses -- then yes, I would agree that the proposed changes represent a major departure from the ideals that the server was built upon, and I would be very disappointed.

[Buhbuh]

Originally Posted by MilkyMilkyCamel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Responding to lindz,

It was my impression that the majority of community feedback over the past two weeks regarding the resist system was that there were too many full resists / full lands happening, and too few partial resists (compared to classic, I mean, and not just some players' preferences).

The resist system they had in place was not exactly the same as the classic system, correct? And that is because the exact resist check formulas for classic are unknown?

If the answer to either of those questions is a definite, verifiable "no" -- without any exceptions or additional modifying clauses -- then yes, I would agree that the proposed changes represent a major departure from the ideals that the server was built upon, and I would be very disappointed.

Lookie! Another person with good analytical skills! I think we're up to four or five people now?

[Billbike]

Everyone go back to p1999 and go to the arena or duel eachother and see how those "classic resist" work for you.

Null knows his shit.

[mimixownzall]

^---- VZTZ fanboi

[Billbike]

Originally Posted by mimixownzall [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

^---- VZTZ fanboi

PvP fanboy.

For a long while vztz was the only classic PvP, so yes I played there.

So you people think there's " classic resist" just sitting in the garage collecting dust somewhere?

Who did you play on VZTZ Mimi?

[mimixownzall]

Originally Posted by Billbike [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

PvP fanboy.

For a long while vztz was the only classic PvP, so yes I played there.

So you people think there's " classic resist" just sitting in the garage collecting dust somewhere?

Who did you play on VZTZ Mimi?

I didn't. I played live PVP.

[Billbike]

Originally Posted by mimixownzall [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't. I played live PVP.

Being that you never even played VZTZ, how do you know what you are arguing against?

While you were bluing it up with unicorns and rainbows, the guys at VZTZ were actually PvPing. Their experience with EMU and PVP is relevant and should not be discounted in ignorance.

[mimixownzall]

Originally Posted by Billbike [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Being that you never even played VZTZ, how do you know what you are arguing against?

I'm arguing against anything that isn't classic. Null came from VZTZ; VZTZ did not use a classic pvp system; Null is trying to implement a non-classic resist system. 2+2=4

Originally Posted by Billbike [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While you were bluing it up with unicorns and rainbows, the guys at VZTZ were actually PvPing. Their experience with EMU and PVP is relevant and should not be discounted in ignorance.

Yawn, obligatory 'bluebie' drivel from a VZTZ'r.

The argument is pretty simple:

Red99 has been advertized as a Classic PVP server just as p99 is advertized as a Classic EQ server.

Stuff is being implemented that is NOT classic.