Spells: Shaman DoTs Not Stacking Correctly

[Cwall]

anecdote of an anecdote

must be legit cause they cancel each other out

[Castle]

anecdote of an anecdote

must be legit cause they cancel each other out

Anecdote (based on memory 12 years after the fact by biased people)
versus
Anecdote (written down during the period as it was going on by unbiased people)

Yep, I think we know which one is more legit [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Dfn]

All Shaman DoTs stacked. Confirmed.

[valithteezee]

Castle has put in a lot of work for this cause and pretty much derailed any conflicting information. I hope in the next major patch we can start to see some of these changes implemented.

[Castle]

On the Beta server I tested and validated the numbers from a source I linked. It is shockingly accurate. I show through simple observation at the end he was clearly stacking DoTs, or he would have had different numbers. In other words, INC Haymaker 2.0.. 1.0 was already a knockout, 2.0 is just for show.

http://web.archive.org/web/200201131...Id=1141&Page=2

WHY EB TILL 49???, By Nuuk warchyld (the sacred) rodcet nife (1/28/2001)

Mobs that are level 35 or so like, Dorfs, Ein, Guards etc.. have roughly 1700 hit points. Therefore after level 39 (Venom of Snake) an efficient mana way of killing these mobs is as follows: Lure with Scourge (550dmg), VoS(460dmg), EB(220dmg), ROOT, VoS(460dmg) after 42 seconds. Root to keep mob still to get full dmg from dots in. With out EB you would come up short about 150 dmg therefore having to waste mana on a blast that could get resisted or VoS which takes more mana than EB. With this series of spells you can get right till level 48 killing those mobs with minimal mana loss and downtime. and dont forget to med while waiting for mobs to die. I have used this method on dorfs and lose only 1 bubble of mana per mob i kill. I keep just ahead of 5 dorfs at a time. thats roughly a dorf ever 4 mins with almost no down time since i med between dots not fights. Try it it works great!

I tested these numbers and here is what I found.

First, I checked the spell damage. His spell damage numbers are exact except you can tell he rounded the 1s place so his numbers above have 0s (ex: 219=220.)

Secondly, and more importantly I tested (on the Beta server) his exact strategy on the exact mobs he camped. I had to wait between DoTs because they aren't stacking correctly currently, so it took longer, but damage was the same.

Test 1 -- Target: Balen Kalgun -- Location: BB Docks
Pull with Scourge. Root. With with VoS. Waited for VoS to wear off. Hit with Ebreath. Waited for Ebreath to wear off. His with Final VoS. Mob just barely died I think on the last tic of VoS. Exactly as he predicted.
Pictures one, two, three & four

Test 2 -- Target: Thar Kelgand -- Location: BB Docks
Same strategy as above. Same result as above. This dude knew his stuff. Changed UI to make it clearer and got it in 2 screenshots: one & two

Test 3: -- Target: Magnus Boran -- Location: BB Docks
Since he said "With out EB you would come up short about 150 dmg" I tested it without EB to see how much the mob had left. 8% and it took 2 DDs for 82 dmg (162dmg) to kill the mob... The guy was dead on.
Pictures: one & two

Proof is in the pudding lads. On my 2nd 80dmg blast to finish off the final 150 dmg this guy mentions.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you're a little slow you may be thinking at this point "so what, what does that prove besides he knew their HP?" Well, he only knew their HP because he stacked the DoTs. If the EBreath didn't stack with VoS the mobs would still have 150hp left whether he decided to cast it while VoS was active or to not cast it all. However, as he states, that was not the case. The mobs only had 150hp left if he didn't stack Ebreath with VoS. In classic and even now IIRC these mobs were always level 35, they always spawned with the same hp; it's the perfect constant for an experiment like this.

In my test I used the spells he said and they had the same result, except I couldn't stack them because the Devs haven't fixed it yet. He's obviously stacking multiple poison DoTs according to his description. He makes no mention of waiting inbetween Scourge and VoS, or VoS and Ebreath, only to wait 42 seconds for the 2nd VoS (which is how long the 1st VoS takes to run its course.) Once again if that Ebreath didn't stack.. there'd still be about 150hp left on the mobs. Life mob versus dead mob = pretty easy to discern the difference, bros.

It's quite simple, but I recommend slow people read that again. There you have it, another proof justified.

It's overwhelmingly clear. When you fixing this, Devs?

[valithteezee]

"Inferior dots do not stack with superior dots."

Darkpeon, do you think it's more logical to assume that shaman's rolled around for over 3 years casting superior dots + inferior dots and did not notice the damage was stacking?

OR

That the damage actually was stacking and was used as an efficient means of PVE and PVP combat for over 3 years- as CONFIRMED by numerous people.

Anyways, the entire base of your argument is rooted in patch notes from July 24, 2002.

The Ruins of Kunark (April 2000)
The Scars of Velious (December 2000)
The Shadows of Luclin (December 2001)

Patch on July 24, 2002.; 8 months after Luclin was released.

The Planes of Power (October 2002)

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this a CLASSIC experience? That means game mechanics should remain classic up until a point in time where an expansion changes things.

KEEP IT CLASSIC

[DarthPeon]

Originally Posted by valithteezee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Darkpeon, do you think it's more logical to assume that shaman's rolled around for over 3 years casting superior dots + inferior dots and did not notice the damage was stacking?

OR

That the damage actually was stacking and was used as an efficient means of PVE and PVP combat for over 3 years- as CONFIRMED by numerous people.

Anyways, the entire base of your argument is rooted in patch notes from July 24, 2002.

The Ruins of Kunark (April 2000)
The Scars of Velious (December 2000)
The Shadows of Luclin (December 2001)

Patch on July 24, 2002.; 8 months after Luclin was released.

The Planes of Power (October 2002)

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this a CLASSIC experience? That means game mechanics should remain classic up until a point in time where an expansion changes things.

KEEP IT CLASSIC

The amusing thing is you started this thread topic on the pvp forums and yet your reading comprehension is unfortunately not even on par with Castle. You missed the boat entirely - He at least understands this point below, and is arguing for something entirely different.

Regardless of where you stand on the issue - Dot stacking was never removed in this Luclin patch. One side is claiming it was in classic for Shaman "only", the other is proving that it was not the case.

Patch Date Sept 4th, 2002

We've made two changes to the way spells stack.

Damage Over Time (DoT) spells are spells that linger on the target
doing damage. Until today two different characters could not have the
same DoT spell on the same target. As long as one copy of the spell was
active any new version of the spell would not take hold. After today
the same DoT spell cast by different casters can affect the same target
at the same time. Also, if you cast a DoT spell on a target and you
already have that spell active on it, the spell will refresh. (Note: It
will not be possible to stack Lifeburn).

This however still does not allow for inferior spells to stack along with superior
spells. (Example: Two Necromancers can both land Boil Blood on the same
target. However, Heat Blood, being an inferior spell, will still not
stack.)

Full patch notes below

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/hist...es-2002-2.html

Read the exact wording from the notes and let it sink in.

The example that you misinterpreted was given to show that on this date in Luclin, same dots began to stack by multiple casters and the total dot/debuff limit was raised beyond 15.

The word "still" can be interpreted and coaxed out from the patch notes since by deduction dot stacking of lower/higher dots was not a feature taken away at that point.

Valitheezee, consider this my last response to you and good luck with your petition as well.

[skorge]

unfortunately Castle is wrong, shaman could only stack one dot of each type, disease & poison, in classic. How do i know this? I actually PLAYED a shaman in classic. Can't get any stronger proof than that.

/end thread

[bionicbadger]

Originally Posted by skorge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

unfortunately Castle is wrong, shaman could only stack one dot of each type, disease & poison, in classic. How do i know this? I actually PLAYED a shaman in classic. Can't get any stronger proof than that.

/end thread

I played a shaman in classic too, beta 3 - luclin. And the different level DoTs did stack. It would have been much harder to solo shit if they didn't stack.

[valithteezee]

Lol, you are taking the patch notes from 2002 like they were passed down from Moses and it's unconvincing evidence at best. Yet, you can not give a single source from that era that states Shaman's(not necro's/druids) could not stack scourge/plague or ebolt/Vos. However, the overwhelming majority of Shaman players have confirmed it did stack.

Doesn't really matter at this point since we're beating a dead horse. Appreciate the feedback in any case.