Classic Feel vs Classic Mechanics

[Clark]

Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Really? You've been here for 4 years and you say that? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Worship ( http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=worship ) is exactly what's happening amongst the noisiest part of the community here. The staff appears to have a different agenda, and a lot of us players are just here for the fun of it, but the :classic: nerds make it plain every day that they are 100% in worship mode. And they especially advocate for and worship the stupidest of the choices our Verantard overlords made back in the day.

[Cippofra]

It really needs to be mentioned that the exp loss isn't a factor for people pursuing anything worthwhile. Exp doesnt matter much at 60, and you always end up getting a rez anyway

[sox7d]

Anything can sound easy if you prefix it with "All you have to do is..."

[kaev]

All you have to do is prefix it with "All you have to do is..."

Your right, it is pretty easy when it comes right down to it. Also, if you break another mez you're getting a paladin rez, and he's not 59 yet.

[tanknspank]

For me the classic feel comes down to 3 aspects: social-centric, toolset variety/freedom and risk-vs-reward.

Social-centric: The game is focused on working with other people. Making friendships and working together is highly beneficial. Soloing is limited to certain classes or specific mob types / locations / etc. Even the best solo classes have a lot to gain from other players (sow, clarity, ports, rez).

Toolset variety/freedom: Classes have a lot of variety in their toolkit because design was not slave to balance/equality. Furthermore the game places almost no restrictions on how tools are used. Charm a quest giver? Shared wolf form for faction? Kill your own race's guards for XP? Cast/med in between ticks? FD/sneak/invis/whatever pulling? You can do all that.

As a spinoff of the above and combined with a slower pace of combat, these tools often let you salvage a defeat with the proper decisions / actions. In EQ a bad situation often develops gradually and you can often salvage it with creative uses of tools. In WoW-like MMOs this is rarely possible and generally when things go bad it happens fast and is often not salvageable due to limitations (limits on combat rez, mana regen in combat, enrage timers, lack of control abilities/role, etc).

risk-vs-reward: Getting killed in EQ costs you a chunk of XPing time. It's something that stings a lot more than a few gold repairs. Not only that but you can lose levels too, forcing you to fight at a reduced power level to re-earn it. But at the same time you can earn better XP/loot by taking increased risk.

Consider Dreadlands vs LGuk/SolB. DL is relatively safe, full of solo pulls and very flexible as far as your group comp. But the loot is dismal. On the other hand in LGuk/SolB you're getting much more valuable loot, but you need a balanced group and lack a convenient zoneline you can run to as soon as things look bad.

[Taeoz]

It really does depend on your definition of difficulty and what part of the game we're comparing.

To me, EQ is about leveling - that's what I always have spent most time doing. Even the few characters that I got to max level on live, didn't see all that much raiding, since I just started a new alt to level up. In WoW, leveling is a joke - so much so, that you can just buy a max level character from Blizzard now.

And if we are comparing the difficulty in leveling, I think EQ is definitely much more punishing than WoW. They're not even close. One of my favourite new features on GiantBomb, is their new hire Dan Ryckert doing a 30-day trial of WoW as a person who has never played any MMOs. He is managing to level up and play the game, even though he is truly clueless and barely using his skills correctly. Now if he were to do a similar feature on P1999, I doubt he would get very far.

I think the best indicator of the difference is the mentality by which you approach new areas in both games. In WoW, you can just run in and start beating on stuff. If it turns out to be too much and you die - oh well, not that big of a deal. In EQ, if you're not familiar with the place, you will scout the area, looking for the static spawns and any pathers. You'll have probably read about the zone/mobs before even logging in. You will have a plan to escape/survive if things go south. You'll set up your spells to deal with the specific situation at hand.

I mean, shit - as I keep leveling my druid, the option to charm in Kedge will present itself. That idea is scary as hell, as it's one of those zones I've never played in. I'm not sure if I'll ever take the plunge or if I'll opt to do something safer. I've never had to have such deliberations about anything in WoW.

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by Taeoz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

not sure if I'll ever take the plunge

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[Klapton]

Originally Posted by Taeoz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It really does depend on your definition of difficulty and what part of the game we're comparing.

To me, EQ is about leveling - that's what I always have spent most time doing. Even the few characters that I got to max level on live, didn't see all that much raiding, since I just started a new alt to level up. In WoW, leveling is a joke - so much so, that you can just buy a max level character from Blizzard now.

And if we are comparing the difficulty in leveling, I think EQ is definitely much more punishing than WoW. They're not even close. One of my favourite new features on GiantBomb, is their new hire Dan Ryckert doing a 30-day trial of WoW as a person who has never played any MMOs. He is managing to level up and play the game, even though he is truly clueless and barely using his skills correctly. Now if he were to do a similar feature on P1999, I doubt he would get very far.

I think the best indicator of the difference is the mentality by which you approach new areas in both games. In WoW, you can just run in and start beating on stuff. If it turns out to be too much and you die - oh well, not that big of a deal. In EQ, if you're not familiar with the place, you will scout the area, looking for the static spawns and any pathers. You'll have probably read about the zone/mobs before even logging in. You will have a plan to escape/survive if things go south. You'll set up your spells to deal with the specific situation at hand.

I mean, shit - as I keep leveling my druid, the option to charm in Kedge will present itself. That idea is scary as hell, as it's one of those zones I've never played in. I'm not sure if I'll ever take the plunge or if I'll opt to do something safer. I've never had to have such deliberations about anything in WoW.

Well said. I remember the first time I ran my bard to Highkeep. I was actually SCARED running through Kithicor Forest. No game I have ever played since gave me that sense of danger. Not even close.

[HippoNipple]

Originally Posted by sox7d [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This server heavily emphasizes the technical parts of staying true to classic, but at what point does the classic feel of 2000 get diminished by such a strict standard?

People grouped much more back then due to being significantly less twinked and ignorant to race/class experience penalties. I think most of us can agree that grouping and dependency is what separates this game from every other current MMO.

Since a wipe is off the table, I believe that an exp penalty to soloing and an experience bonus for more group members were implemented, the server would feel much more classic. Below 50, a group of 2-3 people can hold down most exp camps given 2014 competence and twinking, might as well have an incentive to invite more members if camps are getting cleared regardless.

I'm not asking for this to be implemented, I'm just curious of what you guys think of classic feel vs classic mechanics.

Exp bonus isn't classic. I had more free time in 1999 so if you want it to be fair to me I need a 5x exp bonus for my classic experience to be the same.

If you want I can come over and stuff you in a locker so you can remember what 1999 was like for you.

[Tecmos Deception]

Just because WoW has gear checks built into a lot (or even all) of its encounters hardly means that player knowledge/skill isn't a big factor as well. There are plenty of old encounters (not even just raid encounters either) that can wipe a player/group/raid in MoP gear if they don't know the mechanics before the attempt.

Besides, EQ isn't even close to being ALL about player knowledge/skill either: good luck XPing in HS south with a group of level 50s, or killing Hoshkar a raid of level 50s wearing cloth (short of a huge, huge zerg).