World of Warcraft really is an EverQuest copy/pasta.

[Wakanda]

I've been playing WoW for over 20 years and am currently logged into it right now, so I'm not just being a hater. But I'm in the portal room in Stormwind, and thinking about how similar it is to the Plane of Knowledge. Except the Plane of Knowledge was exciting and a huge novelty. With WoW the fast travel mostly feels irrelevant or pointless. I only noticed it because I was going to a previous expansion to unlock a transmog for my new alt.

But my point is, it really feels like there was no original ideas with WoW. They are even getting to the point where EQ did around the time most of us quit, IE. churning out faster and faster expansion packs for $$$.

My girlfriend legit confused when I told her the new expansion is coming out in months, not years, because she's used to earlier WoW where an expansion could last years, not a year'ish.

[kjs86z2]

no shit sherlock

[shovelquest]

Someone tell Daybreak Games's investment group!

[Rygar]

WoW had plenty of "original ideas" if anyone can really say that in a fantasy setting (meaning everyone copies from D&D)

But to name a few: using a separate stat (resilience) to balance PvP play and not unbalance PvE, battlegrounds, quest exp system was very intuitive to new players, economy super well balanced (best I've seen in an MMO), stat tree allowed for a single class to function based on how you prefer to play (i.e. shaman could be a healer, range DPS, or melee DPS), armor enchants, trade skill system was integral to raiding, instancing, griffon travel, character fashion quest customization, etc.

And lest not forget a true "good vs. evil" system where you couldn't even group or communicate with the opposing faction.

Shame on you for playing Alliance (and making this thread)

[Wakanda]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

WoW had plenty of "original ideas" if anyone can really say that in a fantasy setting (meaning everyone copies from D&D)

But to name a few: using a separate stat (resilience) to balance PvP play and not unbalance PvE, battlegrounds, quest exp system was very intuitive to new players, economy super well balanced (best I've seen in an MMO), stat tree allowed for a single class to function based on how you prefer to play (i.e. shaman could be a healer, range DPS, or melee DPS), armor enchants, trade skill system was integral to raiding, instancing, griffon travel, character fashion quest customization, etc.

And lest not forget a true "good vs. evil" system where you couldn't even group or communicate with the opposing faction.

Shame on you for playing Alliance (and making this thread)

I'm actually curious when the last time you played WoW was ?

-Resilience was removed from the game 15ish years ago because of how unpopular it was, but I also don't know if you could necessarily consider it an original idea since it was a band-aid for a problem that didn't exist in EQ.

-BGs are not original to WoW, they first appeared in DAoC.

-The economy in EverQuest is superior to any other MMO I've ever played. There are really, really, really exciting items you can buy with the currency. People go out and farm the currency because of how valuable it is. Meanwhile on WoW I have over 10 million gold, and could buy dozens of WoW tokens. That's about all I could buy. You basically can't buy any powerful items in WoW, making the economy extremely boring.

-Talent Trees were not original to WoW. I also remember playing City of Heroes months before WoW came out; game was built around completely customizing your character through talent trees. EQ 2 also had talent trees and came out before WoW. Talent trees in WoW have also aged horribly to where you have no choice. It's hard to get excited about the next expansion coming out because they highlight these super unique talent choices, but in reality I can just glance at them and already know which ones will be mandatory for my spec to be viable.

-Instances are not original to WoW. The first time an instance ever appeared in an MMO was EverQuest, Lost Dungeons of Norrath.

(i.e. shaman could be a healer, range DPS, or melee DPS)

I find that WoW did a terrible job at this to be honest. In EverQuest a Shaman or Druid can Heal or DPS. They are true hybrids in that sense. There's no such thing as inviting a Shaman and finding out he can't heal, or inviting a Druid and finding out he can't deal DPS.

In WoW, they call classes like Shaman and Druid "hybrids," but the reality is, they are forced to choose a role. Which doesn't really make them hybrids. I remember when WoW first launched 20+ years ago, I would get mad at the Druids in my group because they couldn't heal or tank. I just didn't understand it because they were advertised as hybrids; what do you mean you can't heal or tank??? You're a hybrid!

And yes, WoW did eventually add dual specialization to the game, but IDK how original that is because it's addressing a problem that didn't exist in EQ. And I also find it largely irrelevant because the game is so homogenized how that rogues and warriors can heal better than druids etc. making the hybrid titles even more irrelevant.

-Trade system being integral to gameplay isn't really an original WoW idea. It started with SWG, and was carried on in EQ 2.

-Griffin travel? I mean you may have a point there, but EQ had teleports, portals, PoK books, and boats long before WoW was even conceptualized. And ironically most people agree, even blizzard employees, that flying ruined WoW.

-The fashion quest customization part triggered me. EverQuest had custom cowls, and you could literally dye your armor. The transmog system? It was copy/pasta'd from Rift, but the version in Rift, called the wardrobe system, was superior in every way. So superior in fact, that WoW's next expac is adopting it. Unfortunately we still won't be able to dye our armor in WoW. I'm sure they will eventually add it in a future expac and pretend like it's new groundbreaking content.

And lest not forget a true "good vs. evil" system where you couldn't even group or communicate with the opposing faction.

This part triggered me too. I spent the last few years of my EQ career playing on Sullon Zek. You couldn't communicate with separate factions. I don't think anyone would actually argue that the language system in WoW is more advanced than the language system in EverQuest. Quite the opposite.

[Wakanda]

Originally Posted by Wakanda [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Talent Trees were not original to WoW. I also remember playing City of Heroes months before WoW came out; game was built around completely customizing your character through talent trees. EQ 2 also had talent trees and came out before WoW. Talent trees in WoW have also aged horribly to where you have no choice. It's hard to get excited about the next expansion coming out because they highlight these super unique talent choices, but in reality I can just glance at them and already know which ones will be mandatory for my spec to be viable.

It sucks we can't edit posts, but also SWG (created by the same people who made EQ) was also built around skill trees. I think you make the mistake of looking at things WoW has that EQ 1 doesn't have any coming to the conclusion that WoW created these.

I personally found the AA's in EQ more compelling than what we have in WoW.

[Wakanda]

Originally Posted by Wakanda [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-Griffin travel? I mean you may have a point there, but EQ had teleports, portals, PoK books, and boats long before WoW was even conceptualized. And ironically most people agree, even blizzard employees, that flying ruined WoW.

I just remembered I enjoyed the griffin flight in EQ 2 more than WoW because if you needed to, you could jump off the griffin mid flight and take fallen damage, but this was extremely useful to get to places that there was no flight path to, or to get off of a flight prematurely when soemthing came up.

[Knuckle]

Originally Posted by Wakanda [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-BGs are not original to WoW, they first appeared in DAoC.
Yes but to the original topic, this feature was not copied from Everquest.

-The economy in EverQuest is superior to any other MMO I've ever played. There are really, really, really exciting items you can buy with the currency. People go out and farm the currency because of how valuable it is. Meanwhile on WoW I have over 10 million gold, and could buy dozens of WoW tokens. That's about all I could buy. You basically can't buy any powerful items in WoW, making the economy extremely boring.

Irrelevant point, and economy was very strong in classic WoW, but not part of the original statement that its copy/paste from EQ.


Talent Trees were not original to WoW. I also remember playing City of Heroes months before WoW came out; game was built around completely customizing your character through talent trees. EQ 2 also had talent trees and came out before WoW. Talent trees in WoW have also aged horribly to where you have no choice. It's hard to get excited about the next expansion coming out because they highlight these super unique talent choices, but in reality I can just glance at them and already know which ones will be mandatory for my spec to be viable.

Everquest 2 released 2 weeks before WoW. WoW did not copy talent trees from EQ2. They did get talent ideas from other MMOs as shown above, this is true, but not part of the original argument.



-Instances are not original to WoW. The first time an instance ever appeared in an MMO was EverQuest, Lost Dungeons of Norrath.

There is a one year gap between Lost Dungeons of Norrath and WoWs release. WoWs development began in 1999. I have read John Staats book several times as I was an original kickstarter, but I can not say definitively what month/year they confirmed instancing for WoW dungeons, however, if I had to dig for it, I am confident it was not the last 12 months of the development cycle, since they had to extend the release date, implying the majority of technical tasks were in some sort of progression or near completion state, and the idea that they just then pivoted to instanced dungeons because of LDON would be ridiculous. Again, only to argue that WoW is not copy/paste EQ, it doesn't really matter if another game did it first.



I find that WoW did a terrible job at this to be honest. In EverQuest a Shaman or Druid can Heal or DPS. They are true hybrids in that sense. There's no such thing as inviting a Shaman and finding out he can't heal, or inviting a Druid and finding out he can't deal DPS.

In WoW, they call classes like Shaman and Druid "hybrids," but the reality is, they are forced to choose a role. Which doesn't really make them hybrids. I remember when WoW first launched 20+ years ago, I would get mad at the Druids in my group because they couldn't heal or tank. I just didn't understand it because they were advertised as hybrids; what do you mean you can't heal or tank??? You're a hybrid!

This would further cement the DIFFERENCES as opposed to similarities between the games, nullifying your own topic.



-Trade system being integral to gameplay isn't really an original WoW idea. It started with SWG, and was carried on in EQ 2.

Trade system was technically in EQ1 before EQ2 since Shadows of Luclin introduced the bazaar. You could argue that the WoW trade system is most similar to SoL EQ1 as far as timeline and development. But I think its a vast improvement over the EQ bazaar system, which ended up being both worse than classic EQ tunnel and WoWs auction room. Any EQ2 stuff is always going to be irrelevant to WoW copying as stated above, they released within 2 weeks of eachother.

-Griffin travel? I mean you may have a point there, but EQ had teleports, portals, PoK books, and boats long before WoW was even conceptualized. And ironically most people agree, even blizzard employees, that flying ruined WoW.


WoW was conceptualized way before 1999, but development did start in 1999, meaning when WoW was conceptualized, EQ Was not out yet. Eq classic was out when WoW began development, so only teleports and boats would be relevant means of egress. Also, you are misinterpreting what flying these people are talking about, they are not referring to the griffin travel, but the flying mounts of TBC. Griffin travel I would say is far more unique than anything they would have copied from EQ. Boat travel and teleport spells are very similar to EQ in the sense they are probably the closest argument to "copy paste" so far, but griffin travel is far more original and clearly not an EQ influence....


-The fashion quest customization part triggered me. EverQuest had custom cowls, and you could literally dye your armor. The transmog system? It was copy/pasta'd from Rift, but the version in Rift, called the wardrobe system, was superior in every way. So superior in fact, that WoW's next expac is adopting it. Unfortunately we still won't be able to dye our armor in WoW. I'm sure they will eventually add it in a future expac and pretend like it's new groundbreaking content.


I know this is an off topic aspect but now we are talking modern systems and so irrelevant.

This part triggered me too. I spent the last few years of my EQ career playing on Sullon Zek. You couldn't communicate with separate factions. I don't think anyone would actually argue that the language system in WoW is more advanced than the language system in EverQuest. Quite the opposite.

Language system being more advanced I agree that is not the case. Hard coding racial factions to two sides is also more simplified than EQ's multi faction multi race systems they implemented. I do believe EQ's system superior here, and maybe you could argue WoW copied this and dumbed it down, but Orcs vs Humans was 1993(?) I think? So they always had factions at the core of the lore/game, so I am not sure how much we can draw from this pertaining to the original topic other than EQ did it better, as opposed to WoW copying it.


Again I know my quotes of you are not all necessarily directed at the original topic, but they help prove multiple points on how WoW was not trying to copy/paste EQ.

[Wakanda]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

WoW had plenty of "original ideas" if anyone can really say that in a fantasy setting (meaning everyone copies from D&D)

But to name a few: using a separate stat (resilience) to balance PvP play and not unbalance PvE, battlegrounds, quest exp system was very intuitive to new players, economy super well balanced (best I've seen in an MMO), stat tree allowed for a single class to function based on how you prefer to play (i.e. shaman could be a healer, range DPS, or melee DPS), armor enchants, trade skill system was integral to raiding, instancing, griffon travel, character fashion quest customization, etc.

And lest not forget a true "good vs. evil" system where you couldn't even group or communicate with the opposing faction.

Shame on you for playing Alliance (and making this thread)

also I forgot to touch on the armor enchants part [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] do y’all really not remember chain running LDoN instances to be able to augment y’all’s gear??? I feel like I’m jumping y’all’s case, and I don’t mean to, no hostility, it’s just that you keep implying wow came up with all of these new ideas that had never been done before when it’s simply ignoring reality [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[shovelquest]

What I never understood about wow that worked in EQ and it made no sense to me.

If I saw you running from across the zone in EQ, I knew who you were. Like "oh cool there goes hazenblat, his armor I recognize a mile away"

But in wow, a game with much higher quality graphics, I couldn't identify one person from another in my groups.

I never understood why this was the way it was to me.