So how about that Zimmerman trial?

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Alawen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not doubling down on the race of anyone. The race of the real estate agent or loan officer is irrelevant. Systemic racism is SYSTEMIC.

Here's another study that shows blacks paying higher interest rates AT ALL INCOME LEVELS: Minorities pay more.

Here's another study showing minorities getting jacked in New York.

Here's an academic paper from an older study.

This one is from Harvard.

Not to be outdone, Yale weighs in.

Do you have enough links yet? While we're at it, do you know that data and analysis are not synonyms? Will it confuse the issue if I also mention that women also receive fewer loan approvals with identical financial information, pay more for their homes, and pay higher interest rates?

why would we delve into an avalanche of new links when you haven't satisfactorily demonstrated that your first referenced inequity is actually racist in nature? why do you preclude the possibility of non-racist causes for the systemic racial differences seen in the duke study? there is systemic racial inequity in standardized testing, but we generally don't ascribe it to racism. we're happy to explore cultural, historical, and educational trends that could account for such differences while acknowledging that there may not be a single, convenient catch-all explanation.

would it be unreasonable to believe white home buyers, on the aggregate, have more experience with the housing market, whether it be through education or a more robust family history of home owners?

i'm not necessarily suggesting that is the case -- i'm simply forwarding it as a reasonable interpretation of the data that does not require active forces of prejudice or racism within the housing market. that data could be a result of systemic racism, but it also could not be. if we are too hasty in our assessment of institutional racism, we risk undermining the consequence of the charge.

[stonez138]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

would it be unreasonable to believe white home buyers, on the aggregate, have more experience with the housing market, whether it be through education or a more robust family history of home owners?

Would it be unreasonable to believe that white home buyers have better education and "a more robust family history of home owners" because people of color have been discriminated against in this country for hundreds of years? To the point to where they were forbiden to but homes in certain areas if permited to at all?

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by stonez138 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Would it be unreasonable to believe that white home buyers have better education and "a more robust family history of home owners" because people of color have been discriminated against in this country for hundreds of years? To the point to where they were forbiden to but homes in certain areas if permited to at all?

no, that's the whole point. but we can't rewrite history. there's a significant difference between saying minorities are still suffering from the residual effects of historical racism and saying the current state of the real estate market is actively, pervasively, and uniformly racist without any evidence of racist practices on the part of any party with influence over the results of this specific data

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by stonez138 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Would it be unreasonable to believe that white home buyers have better education and "a more robust family history of home owners" because people of color have been discriminated against in this country for hundreds of years? To the point to where they were forbiden to but homes in certain areas if permited to at all?

I think its an extremely reasonable explanation. That is what Daldoma said earlier: suppose you run a regression and it turns out the "race" variable has a certain predictive power. What does that mean? Well there are three possibilities:

a) certain races are inferior
b) systemic racism
c) your study sucks

In other words you are not measuring something that is correlated with race for whatever reason that is affecting your results. Really it is impossible to prove from the data alone which is the case. You are suggesting 'C', which I think is by far the most likely explanation.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

a) certain races are inferior
b) systemic racism
c) your study sucks

d) worship-of-poverty

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by stonez138 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Would it be unreasonable to believe that white home buyers have better education and "a more robust family history of home owners" because people of color have been discriminated against in this country for hundreds of years? To the point to where they were forbiden to but homes in certain areas if permited to at all?

yes

because everybody is granted the same opportunities at birth

but there's a problem with a few generations with their worship-of-poverty segregating themselves from normal society.

black men making babies and not helping with their rearing as a positive father figure or financial supporter is a statistical truth of our society. it's not racist.

the black men that emphasize the over-sexualization of women, their gang banger images, and their focus on illicit means of obtaining material wealth rather than education and finding real jobs put a stigma on the entire the black population that might not be true for all black people, but is definitely true for the group that actually does it.

still not racisim. because it's simply true.

end the worship-of-poverty... the black people segregating themselves from the rest of the population... and then the inequalities will disappear. because it's not racisim holding them back; it's themselves.

[Malice_Mizer]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

yes

because everybody is granted the same opportunities at birth

Hey buddy: do you agree with the notion that, "It's not what you know-- it's who you know"?

Then you automatically admit that America is not some grand, purely meritocratic society that it's fantasized to be. The American Dream is a hoax. If you're going to tell me that some rich dick like Mitt Romney had the exact same chances of success as a child born to a single parent in downtown Detroit, you are seriously delusional.

Equality of opportunity is a lie, and you're too intellectually dishonest to admit it.

[Hasbinbad]

Things racists say:

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

yes

[Hasbinbad]

Things racists say:

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

everybody is granted the same opportunities at birth

[Hasbinbad]

Things racists say:

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

worship-of-poverty