Velious Variance Discussion:

[Razdeline]

Sadly I agree with this post and the poster.

[SCB]

Rotation solves all these problems. You'll laugh at best and cry incessantly at the thought at worst, but you can't deny the fact that there's enough content to rotate on everything without needing a variance.

[Karafa]

^ ?

[SCB]

Originally Posted by Karafa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

^ ?

Yeah that post needed a serious edit.

[falkun]

After all this time in Kunark with Variance, TMO wants to remove it because it'll make NToV more annoying?

I'm all for removing Variance and adding Server Resets at reasonable intervals.

Variance makes NToV a hassle instead of the raid dungeon crawl it was meant to be. I don't believe you can invis through it the same way that can be done in VP.

Due to the increased mob DPS and HP in Velious, Variance will make it so that batphoned raids have to be larger than the already ridiculous size of P99 Kunark raids. Only because you are the guild that currently kills most dragons is this question directed at TMO, at what point do you give up batphoning the instant something spawns and go to planned raids? Right now it appears TMO will batphone at any time and muster the ~35 it needs to kill any 32kHP target. Will you still batphone at 3AM to get Ikatiar (136500HP) or Aaryonar (221500HP)?

It appears TMO will do what it must to maintain dominance given the environment it lives within (simple predator/prey relationship), so either TMO must balloon in size to respond to Velious' increased difficulty, or TMO is happy with its size and would like Velious to shrink to its size.

The majority of the rest of the server has decided to say, "Screw it, we'll play at our pace regardless of the environment," and we get the amount of kills we do. Personally, the server as a whole would be better served by "shrinking," since the majority population does not want to expand to the size necessary to be abundantly fruitful in killing mobs. And it appears TMO is here with the same request to "shrink" the environment.

Originally Posted by Joroz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

24/7 tracking is brutal for something you have no clue when it will spawn. Random method would favor the pop in tracker or xp groups in the area discovering something is up potentially making raid mobs more accessible to guilds in the right spot at the right time. It would make it extremely hard for guilds to camp out at the next biggest target "due up" when they have no clue which it will be. The so called competition would shift from logging in hoping for FTE to a race on who could mobilize fastest and engage.

Random method would also cater to the force with the most alts camped out at all the different locations. I'd rather give advantage to the lone 60 guy (note I'm included in this group) than the person who has leveled/purchased 4+ toons and spread them across Norrath. But I can also see how the person who invested the immense time/money into those 4+ toons thinks I'm a charity case because I haven't put in similar effort. That next raid kill means a lot more to the lone 60 than it likely does to the multi-character player, but then I'm more a fan of the journey than the destination.

[Nerosys]

I think variance should be removed, however the discussion doesn't end there, there has to be a solution to the toxic raid environment. Velious is no joke you will not be zerging mobs in velious and if you do you will be met with a wall of death. I do not think rotations or things of that nature were required in Kunark but come velious i think some agreement will have to be made, the competition should come from killing the content. Remember how long it took people to kill AoW with no aa points? Are we really going to try and guild hop and FTE engage in velious ? Besides the fact that it's just getting old i think you will find the results from dying due to rushed engages will get old and some agreement will be reached in the end.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

After all this time in Kunark with Variance, TMO wants to remove it because it'll make NToV more annoying?

I'm all for removing Variance and adding Server Resets at reasonable intervals.

Variance makes NToV a hassle instead of the raid dungeon crawl it was meant to be. I don't believe you can invis through it the same way that can be done in VP.

Due to the increased mob DPS and HP in Velious, Variance will make it so that batphoned raids have to be larger than the already ridiculous size of P99 Kunark raids. Only because you are the guild that currently kills most dragons is this question directed at TMO, at what point do you give up batphoning the instant something spawns and go to planned raids? Right now it appears TMO will batphone at any time and muster the ~35 it needs to kill any 32kHP target. Will you still batphone at 3AM to get Ikatiar (136500HP) or Aaryonar (221500HP)?

It appears TMO will do what it must to maintain dominance given the environment it lives within (simple predator/prey relationship), so either TMO must balloon in size to respond to Velious' increased difficulty, or TMO is happy with its size and would like Velious to shrink to its size.

The majority of the rest of the server has decided to say, "Screw it, we'll play at our pace regardless of the environment," and we get the amount of kills we do. Personally, the server as a whole would be better served by "shrinking," since the majority population does not want to expand to the size necessary to be abundantly fruitful in killing mobs. And it appears TMO is here with the same request to "shrink" the environment.

1. You are comparing Kunark and Velious as if they are like entities. They aren't. Kunark offered 5 raids initially and an additional 6 later on. Velious offers 55 big name raid targets, and 4 gear grind raids. When there was only 10ish poopsockable mobs (Classic/Kunark) Variance made sense. I've never liked variance but I recognized its value.

Velious Raid are largely not Poopsockable which removes the point behind variance. I know you are eager to troll and make this about TMO VS the Server but this has nothing to do with that. The entire server would benefit from lack of variance. Lets face it no matter what raid rules are applied to the server, TMO will structure itself to win. That point is largely moot.

TMO batphones at multiple times at first due to competition, so if we didn't we stood a fair chance of losing a mob. We also batphone because we have a large non-USA timezone playerbase. They should be allowed to raid sometimes too.

TMO will absolutely not have to balloon in size for Velious. But this isn't a TMO thread as much as you want it to be Deajay.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TMO will absolutely not have to balloon in size for Velious. But this isn't a TMO thread as much as you want it to be Deajay.

The points of my thread:
1) Remove variance (Paragraph #2). This is pro-server and even you agree with that.
2) Variance makes NToV a PITA (Paragraph #3). Do you disagree?
3) Do you think the top guilds will go after NToV mobs immediately on spawn or do you think they'll wait a while (Paragraph #4)? Since TMO is currently the top guild, I asked you the question. From my Classic experience, my guild had designated raid times, so we killed what was up when we raided, not raided when stuff was up. I'm trying to get a different opinion here and you are jumping down my throat about it.
4) TMO will adapt to best suite its environment. This is an observation, why do you take it negatively (Paragraph #5)? You sound like you agree as you attack my post.
5) The rest of the server does not feel like adapting for the environment and is content with raiding the way I classically raided, when they want to regardless of when mobs spawn (Paragraph #6).
6) I do not feel random would help players on the server like myself.

If you want to feel I'm attacking TMO, that's your prerogative. But you wanted my opinion on Variance, I listed it above in point #1. The rest were additional discussion because TMO appears to be the ones who will enter NToV first, where Variance will detract from the Classic experience the most.

You see me "attack" TMO because you want to, not because I am.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

After all this time in Kunark with Variance, TMO wants to remove it because it'll make NToV more annoying?

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You see me "attack" TMO because you want to, not because I am.

Your implication was pretty clear. You are either stating that TMO or Myself want to change rules to suit our needs. Implying that we are self-serving in nature.

Maybe you are just so used to attacking TMO you don't even realize when you are doing it anymore.

But for the purposes of this thread you seem to not like variance, so lets move on.

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your implication was pretty clear. You are either stating that TMO or Myself want to change rules to suit our needs. Implying that we are self-serving in nature.

Maybe you are just so used to attacking TMO you don't even realize when you are doing it anymore.

But for the purposes of this thread you seem to not like variance, so lets move on.

I think anyone that purposes any solution other than: "Make it classic" is not here to play in a classic EverQuest sandbox and is most likely out to attempt to shape a server environment that benefits their own needs directly. The players, and the GMs for that matter should have 0 say in creating a raid environment on a classic EverQuest server.

Only the rules that were present during the time period should have any say, and those same rules should be the only ones used today, regardless of the differences between the playerbase, populations, your mother's dog between then and now. Anything else isn't classic.

EDIT: Just for clarification/the record that includes myself. NOBODY should have any say whatsoever. The rules should be as they were, and that should be the end of the story. Any modifications for any purpose, and you're not playing on a server attempting to emulate classic EverQuest.