Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak? (poll asking your opinion)

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by velioussales99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there is a little crew of people (TMO) defending the current state of VP, even though it's non classic.

The staff agrees current rules are bullshit, but do not want to deal with the headache making VP non trainable would induce.

Why?

Because TMO would carry on training in VP and make it impossible for GMs to enforce rules.

Why?

Because without VP, there is absolutely no reason to be in TMO.

You idiots think TMO holds some power over GMs. If GMs wanted to, they could easily straight fuck TMO off the server for noncompliance on rules.

GMs don't want to deal with having to figure out if guild < Craptastic raiders who bitch and moan daily > just trained themselves and petitioned it as if TMO did it or if TMO actually did have a member train them either on purpose or on accident. This also applies to TMO (though they would be less inclined to do it now compared to when they were fighting IB/TR). Why don't they want to do it in this zone compared to other zones? Well, that is because the pathing in VP is still horrid.

[Llodd]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You idiots think TMO holds some power over GMs. If GMs wanted to, they could easily straight fuck TMO off the server for noncompliance on rules.

How did you read that into what he said? anyway

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

GMs don't want to deal with having to figure out if guild < Craptastic raiders who bitch and moan daily > just trained themselves and petitioned it as if TMO did it or if TMO actually did have a member train them either on purpose or on accident. This also applies to TMO (though they would be less inclined to do it now compared to when they were fighting IB/TR). Why don't they want to do it in this zone compared to other zones? Well, that is because the pathing in VP is still horrid.

What is so unique about this zone that it's impossible to fix the pathing issues? I realise recently they did try to make changes to how the pathing in there works and it appears it hasn't made much difference. SO what gives.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Llodd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How did you read that into what he said? anyway



What is so unique about this zone that it's impossible to fix the pathing issues? I realise recently they did try to make changes to how the pathing in there works and it appears it hasn't made much difference. SO what gives.

Training being allowed there makes it impossible for GM's to acquire legitimate info from multiple guilds regarding the state of the zone. Training isn't classic, wasn't allowed on live in VP despite what many people on this server seem to think. There is tons of proof that training was never allowed by GM's on live. Did it happen? Sure, but if it was proven to be intentional severe punishments were handed to entire guilds.


NON-CSR DOESNT MEAN FREE FOR ALL. It didn't even mean that GM's wouldn't enforce the PNP there. All it meant was you enter at your own risk, and if you happen to die and lose your corpse the GM's wouldn't help you retrieve it. Plane of Fear/Hate/Sky were all also tagged non-CSR, so why isn't training allowed in those zones as well on p99? Just seems like a very contradictory stance regarding classic/non classic implementations on the raid scene to allow training in VP when it certainly wasn't allowed on live.

I understand the whole "GM's don't want 3x more petitions for VP every week" argument, but what is going to happen come velious when there are about 20 times more raid targets? Already there is talk of allowing training in Sleeper's tomb/NTov (not classic) and that would be super unfortunate for the server if training was continued to be allowed moving forward into velious.

[Godefroi]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I understand the whole "GM's don't want 3x more petitions for VP every week" argument, but what is going to happen come velious when there are about 20 times more raid targets? Already there is talk of allowing training in Sleeper's tomb/NTov (not classic) and that would be super unfortunate for the server if training was continued to be allowed moving forward into velious.

Why do you think the staff isn't in a rush at all to release velious ? Exactly for this reason.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Godefroi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why do you think the staff isn't in a rush at all to release velious ? Exactly for this reason.

The dev team doesnt handle petitions smart guy. Go update your meetic profile.

[Llodd]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Training being allowed there makes it impossible for GM's to acquire legitimate info from multiple guilds regarding the state of the zone. Training isn't classic, wasn't allowed on live in VP despite what many people on this server seem to think. There is tons of proof that training was never allowed by GM's on live. Did it happen? Sure, but if it was proven to be intentional severe punishments were handed to entire guilds.


NON-CSR DOESNT MEAN FREE FOR ALL. It didn't even mean that GM's wouldn't enforce the PNP there. All it meant was you enter at your own risk, and if you happen to die and lose your corpse the GM's wouldn't help you retrieve it. Plane of Fear/Hate/Sky were all also tagged non-CSR, so why isn't training allowed in those zones as well on p99? Just seems like a very contradictory stance regarding classic/non classic implementations on the raid scene to allow training in VP when it certainly wasn't allowed on live.

I understand the whole "GM's don't want 3x more petitions for VP every week" argument, but what is going to happen come velious when there are about 20 times more raid targets? Already there is talk of allowing training in Sleeper's tomb/NTov (not classic) and that would be super unfortunate for the server if training was continued to be allowed moving forward into velious.

I dont know why you're replying to my query with all this. The point is, staff don't want to deal with that zone because of it's pathing issues making trains common and difficult to ascertain who is responsible for what.

It seems to me the only way it will ever change is either the GM's come down really hard with a take_no_shit policy and just ban people. Which obviously would work after an inititial chaos period. Something Sirken has repeatedly, and unfortunately imo, stated he wont do.

Which leaves the only other option of getting the pathing sorted out, hence my question as to why is it so difficult to sort out. What is unique about this zone that prevents the devs from being able to code the pathing correctly.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Llodd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How did you read that into what he said? anyway

Originally Posted by velioussales99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because TMO would carry on training in VP and make it impossible for GMs to enforce rules.

Probably because he is implying GMs couldn't do their job because of something a guild does...
Like I said, GMs could easily enforce the rules if they wanted to. All it would take is an iron fist approach.

However, as much as the other guilds like to boast non-training, they would cry a river and bitch up a mountain when Sirken handed down a giant raid suspension for training on accident.

Originally Posted by Llodd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What is so unique about this zone that it's impossible to fix the pathing issues? I realise recently they did try to make changes to how the pathing in there works and it appears it hasn't made much difference. SO what gives.

I don't think the zone is that unique, I believe it just hasn't seen much from the devs.

Not to mention, that while the zone was going to be released, the pathing dev was called out to be abusing his powers (true/untrue as it may have been) and ultimately quit. This left VP without anyone to focus on its pathing as the other devs, I believe, were/are focused on Velious.

From what I have seen now there is a new dev working on pathing, but he/she either isn't an expert (not being an ass), has given VP very little attention, or has been focusing on Velious zones more (or some combination of those).

[Llodd]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think the zone is that unique, I believe it just hasn't seen much from the devs.

Not to mention, that while the zone was going to be released, the pathing dev was called out to be abusing his powers (true/untrue as it may have been) and ultimately quit. This left VP without anyone to focus on its pathing as the other devs, I believe, were/are focused on Velious.

From what I have seen now there is a new dev working on pathing, but he/she either isn't an expert (not being an ass), has given VP very little attention, or has been focusing on Velious zones more (or some combination of those).

It is quite bewildering that the endzone of kunark receives such little care and attention.

Should we conclude that the endzones of velious will similarily receive as little attention? Worrying.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Llodd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is quite bewildering that the endzone of kunark receives such little care and attention.

Should we conclude that the endzones of velious will similarily receive as little attention? Worrying.

This is exactly why I'm not very excited for the release of velious on this server.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Llodd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is quite bewildering that the endzone of kunark receives such little care and attention.

Should we conclude that the endzones of velious will similarily receive as little attention? Worrying.

I was referring to the pathing and gave the best reason as to why it is the way it is. The dragons and mobs hit boxes, abilities, etc have all been updated and tweeked a few times.

Velious is an entire different thing, it's the last planned expansion and there (at the moment) isn't any drama circling the pathing dev afaik.