Group vs. Solo

[Snagglepuss]

Originally Posted by vageta31 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not sure what game OP was playing, but the Everquest I played at launch had a ton of solo players. I solo'd my first Druid to 50 before PoF opened up and it wasn't even my first character and I know a ton of others were doing it too because we always fought for the good spots and it wasn't the same people. Maybe due to the large amount of players you simply didn't notice the amount of people soloing but I assure you they were there in large numbers. If you were always grouped then most likely you simply wouldn't have took notice.

Why else do you think there were so many Druids, Necros and Shamans running around in classic?

I agree. I think for this server it's so much more obvious not only because we better understand game mechanics, but also, it's just such a larger portion of the population. People have always solo'd.

[Doors]

Originally Posted by yaeger [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do the Devs have any intention of looking into the non-classic solo exp rates far exceeding group exp?

Pet nerfs, 50% damage nerf, dot nerfs. Get a clue before complaining. Calling caster classes that can solo "exploiting" just because they can solo is retarded.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Doors [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pet nerfs, 50% damage nerf, dot nerfs. Get a clue before complaining. Calling caster classes that can solo "exploiting" just because they can solo is retarded.

Calling out a dude on a 2.5-year-old post? Niiicce.

[Recusco]

As someone that made a CLR first and tried grouping, its not going well. At all.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Don't worry all, I got this one. I bookmarked this thread, and I'll make sure to resurrect it by commenting on sometime late 2015. So, you can stop now.

[Resheph]

Originally Posted by yaeger [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why this focus on solo play? This server has a good population, with lots of friendly people. Everquest's focus has always been about group interaction. Working together to camp current content.

I can't speak for everyone, but I can speak for myself. I think a lot of first-timers (or returning vets new to Project 1999) want a solo class so they can level one up and finance their alts. While the server has a good community and people are active, lower level zones will be less populated than higher level ones. It was true back in the day, it's true now on pretty much all MMOs.

[stormlord]

One of the problem is twinkies, err twinkers. They suit up in some fancy gear and then they go on a killing spree. They see a newbie and wonder if they should group with them. But then the thought is smashed as they contemplate that in this era each group member gives you 2% extra experience, for a maximum of 10%. However, this assumes that the other group member(s) are contributing to a kill equally. This means that if you make a 2-person group with somebody that's not a twink (and/or are unfamiliar with the game since they're a new player) that if they're only 33% of your output that the 2% experience bonus is destroyed by the relative difference in output. So instead of earning 2% extra, you're probably losing something on the order of 32% of your potential if the other person is only contributing 33% of your output. That's like not getting a 47% runspeed buff. So if you group w/ them you'll be thinking about that 47% gain you get be getting alone.

On p1999, I grouped my alts with new players without twinking. But when I was on live there were many times that I would twink an alt and ignore new players and go my own way. Sometimes I'd buff them.

Here's how I understand to do the math:

Solo (experience is not split):
kill - 100 experience
kill - 100 experience
total = 200 experience

2-person Group (other player is 1/3 of your output):
kill - 51
kill - 51
kill - 51
kill - 51
total = 135.66 (.665 x 204)

If all things are equal then both cases require the same amount of time. This means the other person is exactly the same output and you kill things twice as fast. In this case, you only kill at 1.33x, not 2x!

If you were solo you'd be at 200, not 135.66. 200/135.66 = 1.47. 1.47x!

Ya, the server is top heavy, but they make lots of twinks. Just wanted to address why that's not always helpful to new players. The more important thing is that servers tend to attract less players as they age. This is due to numerous factors, but the most important are that software ages and becomes too expensive to renovate effectively and that the companies developing the game carry with them a momentum that limits their ability to shift to changing trends. Basically, it becomes easier to start a new game than to improve an old one. Along with mudflation - increasing numbers of low level zones, devalued content, etc - this can make the low levels feel empty and shoddy. In this sense, some of the best gaming is found in fresh new games, not old ones.

[Kope]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One of the problem is twinkies, err twinkers. They suit up in some fancy gear and then they go on a killing spree. They see a newbie and wonder if they should group with them. But then the thought is smashed as they contemplate that in this era each group member gives you 2% extra experience, for a maximum of 10%. However, this assumes that the other group member(s) are contributing to a kill equally. This means that if you make a 2-person group with somebody that's not a twink (and/or are unfamiliar with the game since they're a new player) that if they're only 33% of your output that the 2% experience bonus is destroyed by the relative difference in output. So instead of earning 2% extra, you're probably losing something on the order of 32% of your potential if the other person is only contributing 33% of your output. That's like not getting a 47% runspeed buff. So if you group w/ them you'll be thinking about that 47% gain you get be getting alone.

I can't speak for anyone else but when I make alts (I have a lot of them actually...) I refuse to solo as soon as I can get consistent groups. It doesn't matter how geared I've had my twink, (quite twinked, not super uber though) or how much more uber exp I can get while soloing, I always prefer to group and have good times and memories with the other players. I've leveled a bard, monk, enchanter to 50+, and have twink pally, necro, shaman, ranger that I only group with.

This is an MMO, if I wanted to solo I'd go play a console RPG.

The bad side of this is when I'm on my bard and I get tells (daily) of other bards asking me to teach them how to AoE kite and I just say "I never learned, I only grouped." I get some funny responses [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Kope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can't speak for anyone else but when I make alts (I have a lot of them actually...) I refuse to solo as soon as I can get consistent groups. It doesn't matter how geared I've had my twink, (quite twinked, not super uber though) or how much more uber exp I can get while soloing, I always prefer to group and have good times and memories with the other players. I've leveled a bard, monk, enchanter to 50+, and have twink pally, necro, shaman, ranger that I only group with.

This is an MMO, if I wanted to solo I'd go play a console RPG.

The bad side of this is when I'm on my bard and I get tells (daily) of other bards asking me to teach them how to AoE kite and I just say "I never learned, I only grouped." I get some funny responses [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree and many do in fact. Twinks don't always stick to their own thing or to special groups. Instead they go out and group and don't care what the experience rate is. It's all about sharing the experience with others. But you have to keep in mind the game rewards people who ignore the new players and number crunch.

As for me, as a very low level character anyway, it may sound strange to you, but I specifically stayed away from twinks and handouts. I like to level slow and take it all in. Plvling is like gross genocide. Now, if I was on hte reverse and I had a max level main and wnated an alt for a guild then I'd probably be solely focused on the rate that I gain. Maybe hten I wouldn't desire so much to immerse myself in the low level game.

Some people you know only care about the rate they gain. For them it's max level or nothing. Max level for them is the access key to the raid scene. Or they play games that level you to max super fast, so when they come here that's what they expect and that's what they'll do if htey can twist the game in their favor. IMHO, max level is game over. Raiding doesn't interest me as much, as I've already tasted it on live. I'm fine if I never get past level 20 so long as I enjoy it. And as far as I played, I can tell you that I indeed enjoyed it. Only 1 or 2 of my characters was over 20. The highest was 24. The majority were less than 19. Rarely twinked.

You know a lot of the things in newer games attempt to address these issues. Issues like twinking and group experience and group versus solo play. There're a million different ways to go about solving them with varying amounts of success. You know what really separates players on different issues is HOW the problem is solved, not whether it's a problem or not. This is my principal disagreement with some of the newer games. It's how they go about solving them that gets me heated up and running away for a different game.

There's also the issue that in groups vender items don't often get distributed equally. One guy will grab a bronze weapon and a pearl and a jade ring and a gold medallion or who knows what and all of that's worth several plat at least but usually nobody says anything and he essentially gets a disproportionate share. Some games do away altogether with vender items or they'll have a complicated method to distribute the loot, but overall, this complicates the process of ensuring that everybody gets their fair share of the loot. This makes soloing better for money in most practical cases, except when the group gets rare loot from a named. In that case, the combined power of the group can be harnessed to grant access to "cash" items which receive a hefty sum. But in the low levels anyway, I can vouch that soloing is almost always better for money. There's also the issue that you can't just run away and sell for money without leaving your group for 20+ minutes and this tends to encourage you to loot less than you otherwise would alone, so that you don't interrupt the group.

We could go on and on about the problems. Some consider them features. For example, the need to actually travel and store our loot with limited numbers of slots and weight limitations makes hte game more interesting for me. However, there're places where I'd like to see things changed in the interest of playability and enjoyment. I am NOT an easy-mode fanboi, though. I am hardcore all the way. For me, strategy and details are more important than convenience. I want difficult travel if it adds strategy and depth, for example. I want weight limitations and bag limitations and travel limitations if I feel it adds to the experience. I'm so bad, so masochist, I'd probably want volume added to the classic eq inventory system, like in diablo I/II/III(?). I'm sure many players would hate it, but I love those kinds of things. I'm an engineer at heart; love details.