OFFICIAL PROPOSAL from FE/TMO

[Durka]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just something to consider when talking about a points system...

What do you do when 1 guild either splits into two or sticks a bunch of alts into a brand new guild...?

How will you know if that new guild is a legitimate separate entity, or just a ploy for more points?

Will you just go with your gut feeling and tell a guild that may in fact be its own thing separate from the original guild 'no, you can't raid because we think you're exploiting points'?

Just a thought. Not saying you can't do it.

That was my concern. No way to really track legitimacy of new guilds that spring up as a result of this...

[Yinikren]

Originally Posted by Durka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That was my concern. No way to really track legitimacy of new guilds that spring up as a result of this...

Plenty of ways to track the legitimacy of a new guild appearing our of nowhere.

This is why a weekly point system would work wonders.

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by Yinikren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Plenty of ways to track the legitimacy of a new guild appearing our of nowhere.

This is why a weekly point system would work wonders.

So what if a current guild legitimately splits for whatever reason? Maybe half the guild doesn't hold with the other half's ideals anymore and wants out...?

Do they not get to raid? How do you tell if its legitimate?

What if TMO sticks all of it's alts in bob guild? the FBI? Knights? Evil Empire? how will you know whats a legitimate guild and what's not?

Can't just say there's 'plenty of ways' to track the legitimacy of a new guild. It's a lot harder than you think.

Again, if you all agree on a points system, no problem. But you'd better have a way to deal with this situation not if, but when, it arises.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what if a current guild legitimately splits for whatever reason? Maybe half the guild doesn't hold with the other half's ideals anymore and wants out...?

Do they not get to raid? How do you tell if its legitimate?

What if TMO sticks all of it's alts in bob guild? the FBI? Knights? Evil Empire? how will you know whats a legitimate guild and what's not?

Can't just say there's 'plenty of ways' to track the legitimacy of a new guild. It's a lot harder than you think.

Again, if you all agree on a points system, no problem. But you'd better have a way to deal with this situation not if, but when, it arises.

You keep spouting this.

Let them split if they want legitimately. If they are skilled and will put in the time to be a successful smaller guild, fine.

If they throw their alts into another guild to circumvent the situation, they will be found out. No guild wants to harbor cheaters and face serious repercussions.

It's much easier than you think as long as the punishment is severe. The more severe the punishment, the less likely that it will ever bare fruit.

I'm surprised you're so narrow sighted.

[Yinikren]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what if a current guild legitimately splits for whatever reason? Maybe half the guild doesn't hold with the other half's ideals anymore and wants out...?

Do they not get to raid? How do you tell if its legitimate?

What if TMO sticks all of it's alts in bob guild? the FBI? Knights? Evil Empire? how will you know whats a legitimate guild and what's not?

Can't just say there's 'plenty of ways' to track the legitimacy of a new guild. It's a lot harder than you think.

Again, if you all agree on a points system, no problem. But you'd better have a way to deal with this situation not if, but when, it arises.

I don't think a point system would punish guilds that legitimately split, because the server wouldn't be flooded with guilds all of a sudden, we'd get one more. If TMO split into an elite faction that wants to compete like ATeam does with a minimalist way of thinking, more power to them. A point system like mine still means guilds have to compete with each other like they do now. There is just a cap that they would hit so target priority is more important.

Any guild that splits would compete with who they split from. The point system isn't guaranteed mobs - its a hard cap to limit guilds from taking too much of the mob pie.

I'm still all for a guild having to be established for a few months before they can get in on the points, anyway.

[jaybone]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what if a current guild legitimately splits for whatever reason? Maybe half the guild doesn't hold with the other half's ideals anymore and wants out...?

Do they not get to raid? How do you tell if its legitimate?

What if TMO sticks all of it's alts in bob guild? the FBI? Knights? Evil Empire? how will you know whats a legitimate guild and what's not?

Can't just say there's 'plenty of ways' to track the legitimacy of a new guild. It's a lot harder than you think.

Again, if you all agree on a points system, no problem. But you'd better have a way to deal with this situation not if, but when, it arises.

Easiest way to solve this derubael is to wipe the server and give a true classic experience with expansion and patches released on actual timelines. 3 years kunark has ruined this server. I understand there are a handful of people working on velious and these things take a lot of time and no one can fault you guys for that.

[Durka]

Originally Posted by Yinikren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Plenty of ways to track the legitimacy of a new guild appearing our of nowhere.

This is why a weekly point system would work wonders.

Oh I really do like the point system, I am just afraid that the cunning of humans will get the best of us in the end. Someone will try it... Awareness is key! If suddenly <existing small guild name here> have an influx of lvl 60's, im pretty sure they magically got some alts from <insert guild name here> or a new guild pops up of lvl 1 toons that power to 60 and start <uberguild4> as an alt guild.

I hope officers from guilds will come to a good conclusion before the raid ban starts!

[gwideon]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just something to consider when talking about a points system...

What do you do when 1 guild either splits into two or sticks a bunch of alts into a brand new guild...?

How will you know if that new guild is a legitimate separate entity, or just a ploy for more points?

Will you just go with your gut feeling and tell a guild that may in fact be its own thing separate from the original guild 'no, you can't raid because we think you're exploiting points'?

Just a thought. Not saying you can't do it.

I mentioned this in a previous thread; feeder guilds and shadow guilds. I think the only way to discourage this is to have a self regulated mandatory wait to raid for people in a guild for less than 30 days. It doesn't completely address the issue, but it would serve to discourage it.

[Hitpoint]

Why is it completely unthinkable that a category B guild can compete on the other 3 weeks of the month with tmo and FE/IB? They can compete right now if they want. We haven't gotten an Inny in weeks.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why is it completely unthinkable that a category B guild can compete on the other 3 weeks of the month with tmo and FE/IB? They can compete right now if they want. We haven't gotten an Inny in weeks.

I asked Taken what toll it was taking on their guild in order to go after Inny in this raid environment. Other "casual" guilds can read and envision their own guilds in this situation and help answer the question above...

Originally Posted by -Catherin- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you try to engage Innoruuk on equal footing with the top dogs, (aka port up at the same time or even before them), they simply train up to Inny, then train Inny and everything else back down to the ZI to kill him there. (complete and utter BS tactic btw and should not be allowed)

It doesn't matter that they may wipe in the process, because the resulting train will wipe all other competition too. While said competition is trying to recover corpses, they continue to pull Inny with everything in his path down to ZI. Once again if they wipe it doesn't matter, because it wipes those now trying to recover their corpses. The train is the insurance policy so that if they screw up on the engage, nobody else can kill him either.

Spent close to 4 hours one Saturday morning just trying to recover our corpses at the ZI because said top dogs could not risk anyone else getting a shot and kept training Innoruuk to the ZI. The multiple wipes made it pretty obvious that they couldn't kill Inny this way with their current force, but they kept at it until we gave up on even our own corpse recovery. We can't win Game of Trains. We were not even a threat anymore. We just wanted to loot our bodies and leave. But they would not stop

That led to the current environment of how we get Inny. There is no way that we can compete otherwise. I personally do a lot of the tracking up there and a server environment that has made these kind of measures necessary is BS. Im glad things are hopefully changing.