Ignoring the Average Joe: Why most raid plans do nothing for those who need it most

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by radditsu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Good job. You really know how to influence people.

who cares rolf , you realy think u can influence people here?we talking about how to set rules in a emulated server based in a videogame wich started in 1999.


u cannot make happy everyone , they will bitch they will moan they will cry because thats how MMo community has turned over the years .

the feeling to achieve soemthing colective either be with a group of 6 players to a raid with 80 dudes is lost.

the casuals will cry for free pixels, the hardcore will cry because they cannot compete .


there is not a fucking sollution to this problem . probably at some point Gms will side with whatever make biggers numbers on their server because its like has been ever .

[Autotune]

FYI, Nilbog does not like the zerg sized guilds. Not sure how the other staff members feel about them (if they feel anything at all).

[Rhambuk]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FYI, Nilbog does not like the zerg sized guilds. Not sure how the other staff members feel about them (if they feel anything at all).

I've always Disliked zerg guilds. I know that tmo fe ib etc whatever don't rely on numbers but that people come to them.

I just remember on live it was a disgraceful thing and youd be laughed at regardless of what you took down

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by Rhambuk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've always Disliked zerg guilds. I know that tmo fe ib etc whatever don't rely on numbers but that people come to them.

I just remember on live it was a disgraceful thing and youd be laughed at regardless of what you took down

the Biggest zerg i saw was from the guild Science of war in sh server, they bindrushed rallos zek in tactics with a total of 247 players . zone was so unstable he pit figth took almost 40 mins .


the best thing gms did was implement a limit on raid numbers and flags after that .

[Rhambuk]

Originally Posted by Arteker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the Biggest zerg i saw was from the guild Science of war in sh server, they bindrushed rallos zek in tactics with a total of 247 players . zone was so unstable he pit figth took almost 40 mins .


the best thing gms did was implement a limit on raid numbers and flags after that .

I've heard of some pick up raids doing RZ with over 300 something like 375 but that's just rumor. It was done with a few hundred though. That encounter was a challenge.

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by Rhambuk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've heard of some pick up raids doing RZ with over 300 something like 375 but that's just rumor. It was done with a few hundred though. That encounter was a challenge.

i will try to find you the forums and logs ,after that zerg Brenloo and Pugigi pushed the limit flag per mob and the raid limit feature lowered.

it was hugue controversial because while they did kill rallos zek u could seee naked people running to pit and dying to mobs to try to get the flag cuz rezzers have alot of bodys .and GM lead Pugigi removed the flag of everyone,

[Frieza_Prexus]

I'm seeing more threads hitting around this issue, and that's a good thing. http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=133770

The basic problem is that you have two drastically different playstyles, and the only way to make them both viable is to completely segregate the populations under two different plans.

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm seeing more threads hitting around this issue, and that's a good thing. http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=133770

The basic problem is that you have two drastically different playstyles, and the only way to make them both viable is to completely segregate the populations under two different plans.

That's not the basic problem. It's true, but it's not the basic problem. The basic problem is that this server has installed non-classic end-game mechanics that necessarily segregate the server population. That's not a natural or classic segregation, and it's not one that should be institutionalized.

Creating such enormous incentives for guilds to track for an obscene amount of hours and be able to log in capable raid forces at a moment's notice at any time of day is NOT classic EQ, and that is why there is such unrest. As it stands on this server, the risk/reward of tracking a raid mob decidedly favors massive zerg guilds. Any guild outside of TMO/IB/FE that even bothers to track mobs in the prime-time hours is taking a terrible gamble, statistically speaking. You're wagering 5-6 hours and your entire raid force of mains (which you must camp out at the scene to have any chance) for a -- what -- 5% chance at the mob? If that? The odds of your even having sufficient numbers to take the mob down is limited to about 6 hours out of the day, which gives you a 25% chance. And when a desirable named pops during prime time, you're probably one of ~5-ish guilds that's going to contest. So let's say 5%.

That's horrendous and has basically precluded the vast majority of the server from the raid scene. Again, that's NOT classic. You've bastardized the notion of "competition" to create a debate over whether or not we should continue to incentivize the so-called hardcore group that wants to continue devoting life-ruining hours to winning CSR-Quest, which is decidedly different from classic EverQuest.

What you should want is a mechanics system that is classic and makes it a) easier for other guilds to compete and b) essentially impossible for one guild to monopolize content. Tiny variances, server repops every 2 weeks or so, and extremely harsh rules against poop-socking/camping out raid forces. That's classic-esque.

[Fael]

Love that response radd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's not the basic problem. It's true, but it's not the basic problem. The basic problem is that this server has installed non-classic end-game mechanics that necessarily segregate the server population. That's not a natural or classic segregation, and it's not one that should be institutionalized.

Creating such enormous incentives for guilds to track for an obscene amount of hours and be able to log in capable raid forces at a moment's notice at any time of day is NOT classic EQ, and that is why there is such unrest. As it stands on this server, the risk/reward of tracking a raid mob decidedly favors massive zerg guilds. Any guild outside of TMO/IB/FE that even bothers to track mobs in the prime-time hours is taking a terrible gamble, statistically speaking. You're wagering 5-6 hours and your entire raid force of mains (which you must camp out at the scene to have any chance) for a -- what -- 5% chance at the mob? If that? The odds of your even having sufficient numbers to take the mob down is limited to about 6 hours out of the day, which gives you a 25% chance. And when a desirable named pops during prime time, you're probably one of ~5-ish guilds that's going to contest. So let's say 5%.

That's horrendous and has basically precluded the vast majority of the server from the raid scene. Again, that's NOT classic. You've bastardized the notion of "competition" to create a debate over whether or not we should continue to incentivize the so-called hardcore group that wants to continue devoting life-ruining hours to winning CSR-Quest, which is decidedly different from classic EverQuest.

What you should want is a mechanics system that is classic and makes it a) easier for other guilds to compete and b) essentially impossible for one guild to monopolize content. Tiny variances, server repops every 2 weeks or so, and extremely harsh rules against poop-socking/camping out raid forces. That's classic-esque.

thats called what happens when there isnt progresion and isnt a raiders fault like isnt a farmer fault when someone go to xxx dungueon camp and find you there soloing .