This just leaves me absolutely speechless. I had no idea it was this bad.

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by Scikala [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Obviously if we cared, we wouldnt buy the stuff..../s

To a point that's true. But when it becomes mandatory to have a car in order to get to work. And a computer in order to accomplish that work, you're kinda stuck. The system is set up to force you to need the very things that are the worst for you. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Trust me I would love to be able to grow all of my own food and generate my own electricity. But you basically have to be independently wealthy to even start. And then you're labeled a terrorist for refusing to receive electricity from the power company. The way everything is set up, we're basically forced to live a backwards lifestyle to a certain extent.

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by r00t [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if we built the towers underground we'd still have freedom

Yup, but building 7 would still be gone.

[moklianne]

It does make more logical sense to build down into the earth rather than build upward as long as earthquakes are nonexistent. Temperature is more stable. That alone is a huge boon in energy savings.

[moklianne]

Originally Posted by Glenzig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To a point that's true. But when it becomes mandatory to have a car in order to get to work. And a computer in order to accomplish that work, you're kinda stuck. The system is set up to force you to need the very things that are the worst for you. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Trust me I would love to be able to grow all of my own food and generate my own electricity. But you basically have to be independently wealthy to even start. And then you're labeled a terrorist for refusing to receive electricity from the power company. The way everything is set up, we're basically forced to live a backwards lifestyle to a certain extent.

http://earthship.com/

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Glenzig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I notice in all the articles espousing overpopulation as the main culprit to climate change, there is a phrase that goes unnoticed by most. "Standard of living". You do realize that humans can live without power plants, and cell phones and computers right?
Besides which. The standard of living they are actually referring to is not yours and mine, but the top 5%. I don't know about anyone else, but I've never exploited the earths natural resources to turn a profit. But yet we are the ones that are made to feel guilty. The finger is always pointed at "the consumer", and never at the manufacturer.

that's capitalism. consumer was capitalized upon by a manufacturer selling them a product. the consumer capitalized upon manufacturers producing cheaper goods which satisfied their own cost-benefit analysis.

[Scikala]

Originally Posted by Glenzig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To a point that's true. But when it becomes mandatory to have a car in order to get to work. And a computer in order to accomplish that work, you're kinda stuck. The system is set up to force you to need the very things that are the worst for you. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Trust me I would love to be able to grow all of my own food and generate my own electricity. But you basically have to be independently wealthy to even start. And then you're labeled a terrorist for refusing to receive electricity from the power company. The way everything is set up, we're basically forced to live a backwards lifestyle to a certain extent.

The /s at the end of what I said = Sarcasm.

I could do a lot of that stuff if I so chose, but it's gotten to the point where its too hard really unless you go completely off the grid in some cases.

The more society advances in general the less options we really have. I mean I could theoretically do my work from home, as we have a few people out of state, but they don't want us to, and therefor I have to keep my car, and all the expenses and waste that come with it.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Scikala [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The /s at the end of what I said = Sarcasm.

I could do a lot of that stuff if I so chose, but it's gotten to the point where its too hard really unless you go completely off the grid in some cases.

The more society advances in general the less options we really have. I mean I could theoretically do my work from home, as we have a few people out of state, but they don't want us to, and therefor I have to keep my car, and all the expenses and waste that come with it.

appearances matter more now unfortunately. our computers enabled us to do that, but no one does it because there's not some giant, metallic penis making a shadow in a city skyline that people can point to. or some contemporary architecture designed building sprawled out in order to house an entire companies work force. or some start up city complete with shopping malls, neighborhoods, temples of all faiths, the entire middle america experience wrapped up and ready to go (Exxon is doing this with their global HQ 10mins from where i live and it's weird).