People that never played classic EQ

[Schwing]

I would just like to note that there was nothing hard about mc. As long as one person had a general idea what mobs/bosses did the other 39 could be braindead and it was still a breeze.

[Eliseus]

That can be said about....... anything.

[kruptcy]

I have only read the final page of bickering without going backwards to the previous pages of bickering. On this final page, there was no mention of downtime and mana regen on EQ vs. Vanilla WoW. I think this, coupled with the fact that an average enemy in vanilla WoW took roughly 1/4th as long to kill solo, and EVERY class in WoW was able to solo level to max level without twinking should be addressed in your arguments.

[Schwing]

Originally Posted by Eliseus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That can be said about....... anything.

No, it can't. MC is the only raid that can be compared to EQ raiding, in my opinion. Though there was an imposed limit of 40 players, that was far too high, even in starter gear. The only difficult fight was just a gear check for basic fire resist gear that you could gradually remove the more raid loot you received. I'd say Nagafen and Voxx were a lot harder and when you wiped you couldn't just spirit form back in and try again within ten minutes.

[Eliseus]

Originally Posted by Schwing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, it can't. MC is the only raid that can be compared to EQ raiding, in my opinion. Though there was an imposed limit of 40 players, that was far too high, even in starter gear. The only difficult fight was just a gear check for basic fire resist gear that you could gradually remove the more raid loot you received. I'd say Nagafen and Voxx were a lot harder and when you wiped you couldn't just spirit form back in and try again within ten minutes.

That's all fine and dandy, and I completely agree (though I do admit I'm better than the average player at probably all games I play). I do have to say though that this assumption is obviously false, even more so given the evidence I showed where most peoples memories would contradict your opinion on the difficulty of classic, well, in this case, MC specifically since you guys try to hold onto MC only counts as classic. Nagafen and Voxx hard? I don't even, what? Zerg fest on 32k hp mobs was hard? 1 group of mages sending in pets was hard? What? Please explain more. My ignorance may be getting the better of me, but in terms of what people considered "classic", it wasn't till Vealious that people had any real struggle with raid encounters and stuff wasn't limited to 32k hp, but, since you guys are trying more and more to limit the discussion to try and prove you are right, that wouldn't even be relevant.

I would have to say that eventually end game won't even matter in the conversation anymore in terms of difficulty, or anything else at that and will strictly be revolved around the lving process. Even then, the skill required to maximize the performance of your character is still much higher in WoW. Eventually all aspects of WoW in this argument are going to be removed though for some of you to try and keep arguing that EQ is harder by trying to argue that you lvl up only off quests, never touched a single mob, and did it naked and can max dps with 1 button in WoW. When we eventually do hit this road, I will concede that EQ is harder, but not off the pretense that it is true, but based off the fabrication that some of you EQ fanboys have created to not deter your love for EQ (which your love is perfectly fine, but some of you are so inept, you don't realize how wrong you actually are).

[Eliseus]

Well the issue with those comments has been addressed. There has been many times mentioned that EQ isn't "hard" based on things like that, it is just time consuming. For example, I camp the bandits in lfay as a lvl 15 mage. Send my pet, throw out like 8 nukes to completely deplete my mana and kill it all. Afk till repops, go make a sandwhich or something. There isn't any real skill involved in the afk process lol. This is actually where a lot of the issues arise on the difficulty of EQ vs other MMOs is the lvling process and how fast is can be done in other games, without any regard into how HARD actually is the lvling process on a skill basis.

[kruptcy]

So how exactly do you define the difficulty of an MMO?

[Eliseus]

Originally Posted by kruptcy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So how exactly do you define the difficulty of an MMO?

Well that is the biggest issue in the argument. How do you define what is considered difficult or not. Maybe it is hard for someone to sit there forever regening mana, they just don't have that patience, so yes, EQ would be the hardest game in your life (personally, I still think FFXI has EQ beat there, but that is another argument for another day). I like to base my idea of difficulty on what is required of me to maximize the potential for my character. That is why I point out stuff like even though you lvl faster in WoW, it still requires more out of you vs EQ to be succesful in it. Sure there is bad players that can still lvl, but it is the same idea as just getting a PL in EQ, but that is why I also mention maximizing the potential of your character. There is a huge gap in performance between a bad player and a good player in WoW. The severity of this gap is a lot less in EQ, except a job like enchanter (which I've already pointed out).

I also base it off of the mechanics presented to you, for example, commonly referred to as twitch mechanics, but not limited to. These are present at ALL levels in WoW, and even more so in End Game. In classic EQ, in comparison, are basically non - existent, and this is me being generious, I don't think they are existant at all. So excuse my ignorance here, because lvling to max lvl didn't have anything, and due to the nature of end game stuff and being zerged, it didn't matter if anything did have said mechanics.

There is a few other things, but those are the big ones.

[Nubben]

You're just proving forensic's point with this post. You're right, camping the LFay bandits as a level 15 mage would not be hard. But do you know what is hard? Going deep into something like Befallen at level 15. So of course EQ can be easy if you take the easiest path through the game. Camping 1-3 spawns in the safety of an outdoor zone is not in any way indicative of EQ's difficulty level.

[Eliseus]

Originally Posted by Nubben [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're just proving forensic's point with this post. You're right, camping the LFay bandits as a level 15 mage would not be hard. But do you know what is hard? Going deep into something like Befallen at level 15. So of course EQ can be easy if you take the easiest path through the game. Camping 1-3 spawns in the safety of an outdoor zone is not in any way indicative of EQ's difficulty level.

I was giving an example of the mana regen comment for krupt. I'll bite though, why would you ever put yourself in a dangerous situation and claim the game is harder because of that? So you are claiming EQ is harder because you are dumb? If I was lvl 15 in WoW, I wouldn't go walk into MC, then complain that no one knows how hard this game is until you try to run past a golem in MC @ lvl 15.