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Old 10-18-2019, 02:02 PM
kylok kylok is offline
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I'm not sure why people are upset specifically about the overlays. I can't prove it, but I'd be incredibly surprised if some of the people who used log parsers in 1999/2000 didn't also have that information in real time on a second monitor/computer.
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  #2  
Old 10-18-2019, 02:05 PM
El-Hefe El-Hefe is offline
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Originally Posted by kylok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I'm not sure why people are upset specifically about the overlays. I can't prove it, but I'd be incredibly surprised if some of the people who used log parsers in 1999/2000 didn't also have that information in real time on a second monitor/computer.

Cause it’s pretty much cheating. Lol

You guys can rationalize it all you want, but people don’t like it because you’re cheating and they don’t want to have to cheat as well to be on an even playing field.
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Last edited by El-Hefe; 10-18-2019 at 02:08 PM..
  #3  
Old 10-18-2019, 04:18 PM
Mblake81 Mblake81 is offline
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Originally Posted by El-Hefe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Cause it’s pretty much cheating. Lol

You guys can rationalize it all you want, but people don’t like it because you’re cheating and they don’t want to have to cheat as well to be on an even playing field.
Its not straight cheating per se, that would be using ShowEQ. A legit cheat program.

This is more laziness. To prop up a bad player who can't keep track. Its the same argument of manual transmission vs. Flappy Paddle transmission. Yes, using the flappy paddles is superior, the driver doesn't have to worry about errors as much but it will never be the same as a good manual driver.

They should admit the truth, they like using crutches and don't understand what the big deal is. That one poster said that (someone says that in each of these threads). Maybe they can't play EQ without them.


Edit: did any posters here actually have a overlay running on their gaming PC, how did they override EQ not being in a window to display it. How much resource did it take to run it and did it lag your computer while running EQ. If you actually did these things then you would remember. If it was on another computer, as lame as that is, how did you connect it to EQ to display such. Did you really go to such lengths just to get some loot tables, DPS parses and chat logs.

I mean.. its easy to load up a GINA that came later in EQs life to, and I quote, "Make EQ easy".
Last edited by Mblake81; 10-18-2019 at 04:29 PM..
  #4  
Old 10-18-2019, 04:20 PM
kylok kylok is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mblake81 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Its not straight cheating per se, that would be using ShowEQ. A legit cheat program.

This is more laziness. To prop up a bad player who can't keep track. Its the same argument of manual transmission vs. Flappy Paddle transmission. Yes, using the flappy paddles is superior, the driver doesn't have to worry about errors as much but it will never be the same as a good manual driver.

They should admit the truth, they like using crutches and don't understand what the big deal is. That one poster said that (someone says that in each of these threads). Maybe they can't play EQ without them.
Yes, great analogy
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Originally Posted by Sunderfury View Post
In our darkest hour, a hero returns
Songs are being sung from every bard,
His passion is back and the fire burns,
With fear and renown, Norrath whispers: Uthgaard
  #5  
Old 10-18-2019, 04:31 PM
kylok kylok is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mblake81 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Its not straight cheating per se, that would be using ShowEQ. A legit cheat program.

This is more laziness. To prop up a bad player who can't keep track. Its the same argument of manual transmission vs. Flappy Paddle transmission. Yes, using the flappy paddles is superior, the driver doesn't have to worry about errors as much but it will never be the same as a good manual driver.

They should admit the truth, they like using crutches and don't understand what the big deal is. That one poster said that (someone says that in each of these threads). Maybe they can't play EQ without them.

Edit: I am not sure, I don't understand, the comprehension is beyond my intellectual reasoning... of why you like it.
That's a good analogy that accurately reflects my feelings on the subject. Just because I feel log parsers should be allowed does not mean that I don't think buff timer overlays and alerts are a crutch for a less than competent player.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunderfury View Post
In our darkest hour, a hero returns
Songs are being sung from every bard,
His passion is back and the fire burns,
With fear and renown, Norrath whispers: Uthgaard
  #6  
Old 10-18-2019, 02:08 PM
kylok kylok is offline
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I think we have a fundamental disagreement on what cheating is. Imo cheating would be MQ, ShowEQ, other stuff that injects code and/or provide information that is otherwise not made available to you. I don't feel that setting a timer for a spell with a known duration fits that criteria.
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Originally Posted by Sunderfury View Post
In our darkest hour, a hero returns
Songs are being sung from every bard,
His passion is back and the fire burns,
With fear and renown, Norrath whispers: Uthgaard
  #7  
Old 10-18-2019, 02:19 PM
El-Hefe El-Hefe is offline
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Originally Posted by kylok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I think we have a fundamental disagreement on what cheating is. Imo cheating would be MQ, ShowEQ, other stuff that injects code and/or provide information that is otherwise not made available to you. I don't feel that setting a timer for a spell with a known duration fits that criteria.
Like I said, you can rationalize it all you want. Cheaters often times don’t think what they do is unfair.

But that shit is cheating and that’s why people don’t like it.
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  #8  
Old 10-18-2019, 02:44 PM
kylok kylok is offline
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Originally Posted by El-Hefe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Like I said, you can rationalize it all you want. Cheaters often times don’t think what they do is unfair.

But that shit is cheating and that’s why people don’t like it.
Pardon me, but I would argue that you, and people who share your opinion, are upset about a YouTube video in which you saw real time graphical overlays. I, like most other players here, had no idea this existed before seeing this video. I highly doubt that another player using this program drastically impacts your gameplay experience. I have never in my tenure on this server been asked before joining a group or guild, as a condition of joining, if I used a log parser. I'd argue that the vaaast majority of players not only do not care about this topic, but are completely unaware of it as well since the impact on gameplay is so small. An attentive player can keep track of their own buffs/spells/raid mob cooldowns without this program.

Would you please explain to me how having these timers and alerts provides an unfair advantage to a player since they utilize information that is made available to every player?

And to be clear, I do not and have not ever used this program - I'm attempting to defend this on principle.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunderfury View Post
In our darkest hour, a hero returns
Songs are being sung from every bard,
His passion is back and the fire burns,
With fear and renown, Norrath whispers: Uthgaard
  #9  
Old 10-18-2019, 02:50 PM
El-Hefe El-Hefe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey Hotay [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Here's some irony that only GINA users are capable of understanding:

This project is in part possible due to preserved logs from the classic era.
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Originally Posted by kylok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Pardon me, but I would argue that you, and people who share your opinion, are upset about a YouTube video in which you saw real time graphical overlays. I, like most other players here, had no idea this existed before seeing this video. I highly doubt that another player using this program drastically impacts your gameplay experience. I have never in my tenure on this server been asked before joining a group or guild, as a condition of joining, if I used a log parser. I'd argue that the vaaast majority of players not only do not care about this topic, but are completely unaware of it as well since the impact on gameplay is so small. An attentive player can keep track of their own buffs/spells/raid mob cooldowns without this program.

Would you please explain to me how having these timers and alerts provides an unfair advantage to a player since they utilize information that is made available to every player?

And to be clear, I do not and have not ever used this program - I'm attempting to defend this on principle.
They’re 3rd party programs that read game data and use said data to display information in real time that was not intended to be easily displayed by games chosen UI.

If altering the UI on Green could be considered cheating, GINA is 100% cheating.

Like I said, you can rationalize it all you want. Most cheaters do.
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  #10  
Old 10-18-2019, 03:07 PM
kylok kylok is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Hefe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
They’re 3rd party programs that read game data and use said data to display information in real time that was not intended to be easily displayed by games chosen UI.

If altering the UI on Green could be considered cheating, GINA is 100% cheating.

Like I said, you can rationalize it all you want. Most cheaters do.
They read data written to the log file. It's important to make this distinction since other programs literally do read the game data that is meant to be inaccessible. The log file is intentionally made accessible.

I don't think anyone is attempting to make the argument that altering greens forced UI is "cheating".

Extrapolating from this thread and Rogeans response to it, my assumption is that manipulation of the log file is allowed and therefore not "cheating" (I keep using quotes because I do not agree with your definition of cheating and did not find your argument compelling) "as long as they do not do any type of automatic control/response/manipulation/macro on your character in place of manual control."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunderfury View Post
In our darkest hour, a hero returns
Songs are being sung from every bard,
His passion is back and the fire burns,
With fear and renown, Norrath whispers: Uthgaard
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