Originally Posted by nilbog

[Darkfuneral]

Bastard

[Dolalin]

Seeing as Nilbog has had infinite opportunities to tell me to fuck off with my random and time-wasting Classic EQ research, and has yet not told me to fuck off, I am going to assume he's at least slightly interested in going in a more classic direction.

If I'm wrong, of course, feel free to tell me to fuck off.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Dolalin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seeing as Nilbog has had infinite opportunities to tell me to fuck off with my random and time-wasting Classic EQ research, and has yet not told me to fuck off, I am going to assume he's at least slightly interested in going in a more classic direction.

If I'm wrong, of course, feel free to tell me to fuck off.

No fucks needed! We're 100% on the same side, in agreement, or however you want to put it. All I was saying is, don't try to make me out to be some dev-doubting naysayer, when I was literally the only one in the forum wasting countless hours arguing that Green would someday exist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Things do change here, they do get better, and I love seeing it when it happens. I'm 100% hoping that good stuff comes out of your thread.

I was just saying that, simply because you got lucky and showed up at the right time for Nilbog to suddenly seem interested ... it doesn't change the fact that for the past 5+ years he hasn't shown any such interest. And in the absence of any communication whatsoever, the idea that Nilbog didn't want (100%) classic ZEMs has flourished.

This is the logical thing to conclude when the stated goal of the project "classic", and some obviously unclassic thing sits unchanged for five years. That's doubly so when no special classic research is required (as I understand it, all the classic ZEMs are in the default EQ Emu values, so if they aren't classic Nilbog had to deliberately change them to be unclassic). And then on top of that, whenever anyone mentioned it for five years, they were always told "Nilbog wants it that way".

So again, I didn't create the idea! I've just played here for five years and learned it from everyone else, the same way I learned (say) that the devs want OOT to be unclassic. It's not like Nilbog announces that to the forum every dayeither, but even so I assume the community wisdom on it is correct ... and again, he almost never says anything, ever, to clarify anything.

[Corbin]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was just saying that, simply because you got lucky and showed up at the right time for Nilbog to suddenly seem interested

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"

The noise to fact ratio on this forum is very lopsided. If your business is getting stuff done, like developing a game in your spare time, this community's style of input could be exhausting and difficult to wade through.

Obviously, the new servers put the crunch into development time. However, Dolalin's contributions (from what little I've read) appear to be focused on providing usable information to the developers, not on subjective opinions or rehashing old p1999 CW.

As you respect the developers and the project I would take "Source?" at it's meaning. If you want to assume anything, I would suggest that recognizing your potential, Nilbog is asking you to find and cite something he can work with.

I started live during POP on a new server. Many of the zems seem similar to that era. Perhaps, it represented the oldest high quality source of zems they had access to at that time, pending further investigation.

Btw, I post with all due respect, or I wouldn't have bothered. I think you and Dolalin do god's work in a hall of sinners, each in your own way.[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[TheDudeAbides]

Originally Posted by Dolalin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

feel free to tell me to fuck off.

Fuck Off

[loramin]

I think you're reading a lot into a one-word response.

It is beyond obvious that Nilbog was calling me out and questioning something I said. But it's not at all clear what specifically he was trying to say. He could have meant:

• P99 has unclassic ZEMs, on purpose, but where'd you get the idea that I want them (maybe Rogean does?)
  
• P99 used to have unclassic ZEMs, on purpose, but I changed my mind and now want them classic
  
• P99 used to have unclassic ZEMs, but it was never on purpose and I've fixed them long ago
  
• P99 used to and still does have unclassic ZEMs, and I know this, but it's only because no one submitted any evidence for five years until Dolalain did
  
• P99 used to and still does have unclassic ZEMs, and I want most of them to be classic, but not Kedge because fuck that zone
  
• P99 ... I could go on, but you get the idea

If I had to guess, my best guess is that Nilbog didn't care about ZEMs for awhile, presumably because he had an entire 20-year old game to emulate and just cared more about other things. He also hates talking to us (can you blame him?)

As a result, the community got the mistaken impression that he didn't want classic ZEMs, when really he just didn't want to deal with ZEMs. But now with Green/Teal he's been reminded of them, and now he's going to take Dolalain's evidence and classic the fuck (please feel free to steal that phrase) out of our ZEMs ...

.. but again that's just a guess, and really we're all just guessing, because the dude made a one-word post in response to my wall of text [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[cd288]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you're reading a lot into a one-word response.

It is beyond obvious that Nilbog was calling me out and questioning something I said. But it's not at all clear what specifically he was trying to say. He could have meant:

• P99 has unclassic ZEMs, on purpose, but where'd you get the idea that I want them (maybe Rogean does?)
  
• P99 used to have unclassic ZEMs, on purpose, but I changed my mind and now want them classic
  
• P99 used to have unclassic ZEMs, but it was never on purpose and I've fixed them long ago
  
• P99 used to and still does have unclassic ZEMs, and I know this, but it's only because no one submitted any evidence for five years until Dolalain did
  
• P99 used to and still does have unclassic ZEMs, and I want most of them to be classic, but not Kedge because fuck that zone
  
• P99 ... I could go on, but you get the idea

If I had to guess, my best guess is that Nilbog didn't care about ZEMs for awhile, presumably because he had an entire 20-year old game to emulate and just cared more about other things. He also hates talking to us (can you blame him?)

As a result, the community got the mistaken impression that he didn't want classic ZEMs, when really he just didn't want to deal with ZEMs. But now with Green/Teal he's been reminded of them, and now he's going to take Dolalain's evidence and classic the fuck (please feel free to steal that phrase) out of our ZEMs ...

.. but again that's just a guess, and really we're all just guessing, because the dude made a one-word post in response to my wall of text [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Whatever makes you feel better I suppose. You've been saying the same thing in your original comment for awhile now and arguing it over and over, and now Nilbog comes and basically contradicts you and you're scrambling to be like "no! I'm not wrong!" since it's kind of embarrassing to argue over and over that X person wants/does something and then have that person essentially be like "no I don't"

[ZiggyTheMuss]

Imagine the entitlement

[loramin]

On review (damn I wish RnF had edit), I think the "defensiveness" you're picking up on is between me and Dolalain (note that the post you quoted was in fact a reply to him). I was just "defending" the fact that we had no classic ZEM activity for five years, because he seems to be newer here and (sort of) called me out earlier.

But again, all the stuff about us not having classic ZEMs I want to be wrong about. As I've tried hard to stress, I very much don't want things to continue the way they are, and for Dolalain's research to be ignored.

Nothing would make me happier than Nilbog "giving me the middle finger " ... in the form of a patch that adds classic ZEMs [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[cd288]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On review (damn I wish RnF had edit), I think the "defensiveness" you're picking up on is between me and Dolalain (note that the post you quoted was in fact a reply to him). I was just "defending" the fact that we had no classic ZEM activity for five years, because he seems to be newer here and (sort of) called me out earlier.

But again, all the stuff about us not having classic ZEMs I want to be wrong about. As I've tried hard to stress, I very much don't want things to continue the way they are, and for Dolalain's research to be ignored.

Nothing would make me happier than Nilbog "giving me the middle finger " ... in the form of a patch that adds classic ZEMs [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think he's debating whether the ZEMs are classic or not. I think he's debating this comment you've always made that he on purpose makes ZEMs non-classic in order to emulate some sense of "ZEM mystery" and create a more "classic atmosphere". And that he stands in the way of them being classic on purpose.

The ZEMs aren't all classic. But, contrary to what you've claimed multiple times in the past, that's not because Nilbog purposefully makes them so to try and create an atmosphere where people know less about them like they may have during the classic era. In large part it's because we don't have full information on what classic ZEMs were. His "source?" question is contesting your contrary claim on those points.