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  #1  
Old 03-08-2020, 02:55 AM
Qaldar Qaldar is offline
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Originally Posted by Gatorsmash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Warriors will and have always out damaged paladin-SK's. And your stun "fact" fails to mention the resist check modifier since your casting a lvl 34 spell at 50.

Like I said, paladin players are fucking delusional about the class.
Warriors may out damage a paladin, but their groups also take a considerable amount of damage over a paladin’s. In Sakuragi’s warrior guide, he recaps a tale of three spore king groups in Kunark. The warrior took twice as much damage as the paladin, and the paladin’s group also took 20% less damage amongst members. Higher damage taken translates to downtime, even if the warrior’s group is killing an individual mob slightly faster than the paladin.

Paladins are the best group tank in the game. Stuns should be chained and are absolutely sick for reducing melee damage, locking down caster damage completely with three interrupts, and for controlling charmed pets (charm pets are where the real dps lies anyways).

In duos and trios, a paladin is also the clear choice due to being able to root adds and their ability to strengthen and increase survivability of their partners. Other tanks cannot effectively duo with an enchanter for example.

PS Stun lands on most PoF mobs, but the main point here is the paladin’s strength in group content. You’ve probably only grouped with bad paladins or were terrible yourself when you tried one.
  #2  
Old 03-08-2020, 03:11 PM
Ennewi Ennewi is offline
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Originally Posted by Gatorsmash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Warriors will and have always out damaged paladin-SK's. And your stun "fact" fails to mention the resist check modifier since your casting a lvl 34 spell at 50.

Like I said, paladin players are fucking delusional about the class.
Well at that level stuns are equal in importance for consistent on-demand aggro at a distance, especially when needing to keep Enchanters/Druids/Necromancers alive during charm breaks; considering those are the true DPS classes, I would say that alone makes knights worth a damn on raids and in groups, where it applies at least. Also, wouldn't a resisted stun translate into more aggro? So your argument actually favors the class more given their traditional role, even though the damage mitigation of an unresisted stun would be preferred. Yes, other classes have stuns and AE stuns, but those stuns typically won't take priority over their other spells or even spell slots, and those classes won't survive long against a hasted torched pet. Plus, if one of those classes attempt to CC that pet and dies, it could easily lead to the group/raid wiping. If PAL/SHD dies, it's no big deal.

That's why they're used in other niche areas of the game as well; pure classes have more to offer physically, if not magically, depending on the target(s). Protecting CC on spiroc island and training bees away. Low numbers Plate House cycles. Fear/Hate break-ins. Ring Wars. All of these scenarios have multiple targets/waves and/or limited space.

It is odd that the original devs gave the best versions of Flowing Thought to priests and purecasters (especially those that already had ways of regenerating mana themselves), when PAL/SHD could have benefited more, closing the gap between OP classes and them. With smaller mana pools and no ability to specialize in any type of magic, higher mana regen would have given PAL/SHD more support raid significance where the previous definitive role (as tank) no longer applied considering that weren't given worthwhile disciplines to increase damage output or avoidance.

Outside a group setting, both knights compete for the title of "worst" in classic and trilogy, at least in min/max terms where you must be able to do one thing and do it very well. Knights needed to be made into more of what they already were, multifaceted, much in the way that Bards are the hybrids of all hybrids.

If your spell book won't ever include bind/gate, evac/ports, slow/haste, mana regen, mez/atone, sow/selos, charm, or even a summoned pet that can withstand damage. If your skill table won't ever translate into burst or sustained DPS on raids. You might be playing one of the worst classes. But by that same logic, if your MMORPG won't let you do all of these things on the same character, some would argue that you're playing one of the worst games.
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  #3  
Old 03-08-2020, 03:22 PM
Ennewi Ennewi is offline
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That's why they're used in other niche areas of the game as well; pure classes have more to offer physically, if not magically, depending on the target(s).
And it's why they (PAL/SK) are DT fodder more often than not.
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Old 03-08-2020, 03:25 PM
DMN DMN is offline
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Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
And it's why they (PAL/SK) are DT fodder more often than not.
Raid scene sucks for pretty much everyone except for maybe the pullers, and SKs can help with that.
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Old 03-08-2020, 03:35 PM
Ennewi Ennewi is offline
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Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Raid scene sucks for pretty much everyone except for maybe the pullers, and SKs can help with that.
True, but then there's already an (over)abundance of Monks. Too many cooks in the kitchen is often the result. SKs are really good for fear golems though; help with pulls and eat the DT.
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  #6  
Old 03-08-2020, 03:56 PM
Madae Madae is offline
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Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
DT fodder
It's unfortunate that this is a thing. The moment I found out my guild on one of the TLP servers would be making my SK do this, I stopped playing it and started something else. It's just funny that your most useful aspect in raids is to get killed so everyone else can succeed. How boring.
  #7  
Old 03-11-2020, 02:01 PM
indiscriminate_hater indiscriminate_hater is offline
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Originally Posted by Madae [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
It's unfortunate that this is a thing. The moment I found out my guild on one of the TLP servers would be making my SK do this, I stopped playing it and started something else. It's just funny that your most useful aspect in raids is to get killed so everyone else can succeed. How boring.
Is standing there autoattacking any better?
  #8  
Old 03-11-2020, 04:05 PM
Madae Madae is offline
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Originally Posted by indiscriminate_hater [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Is standing there autoattacking any better?
Control is still in your hands, so at least you feel active and contributing.
  #9  
Old 03-12-2020, 02:52 AM
Hazek Hazek is offline
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Just remember that Paladin out damages mage pet plus a monk.
  #10  
Old 03-12-2020, 06:48 AM
Gatorsmash Gatorsmash is offline
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Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
And it's why they (PAL/SK) are DT fodder more often than not.
^ Seriously this should tell you all you need to know
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