Enchanter OP impact poll

[Snortles Chortles]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd enjoy it more if it was even harder for warriors to get yellow/red con mobs off of enchanters.

[azxten]

Charm wearing off message didn't work?

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ighlight=charm

Classic bugs with Charm

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ighlight=charm

Charm was less desirable in classic, in part, due to the myriad bugs associated with it. I thought I would post a thread I found that summarizes them, in case there's a desire to tune charm in the future:

http://web.archive.org/web/200006082...ML/001072.html

Charm didn't always stick:
Quote:
2. I hit the monster with charm and nothing happens! I don't get a resist message. Nothing. It just as if the mob didn't get charmed at all. One time I charmed a gargoyle in Mistmoore who proceeded to attack me while his intiate familiar friend beat on him. That sounds pretty bugged to me.
Pathing was very bad for charmed pets (and pets in general, tbh):
Quote:
3. You charm your mob and it amazingly disappears! Goes off somewhere and vanishes from sight. You get the 'Your Charm' has broken message. I just tell my party to zone, because you know it pulled the whole damn place down around your head. Usually a minute later, the whole zone shows up in one mass mob, your screen goes red with damage and you die.
You would occasionally take melee hits that were meant for your pet:
Quote:
Once in Kedge I charmed a piercer and sent it after another mob. As the piercer was valiantly killing off the mobs I was getting whacked along with it. Talk about symbiotic connection! However it was able to kill one of the 4 on it so I got exp right before I swam like a girly-man to the zone.
Pet would attack groupmates, e.g. if it were DoTed by a groupmate, even while charmed:
Quote:
the worst is when it gets bugged, but the charm goes off so you have a pet that it attacking groupmates, not attacking mobs, and your group cant fight back root/etc.. you also cant mez it because its your pet, rechaming is useless.

so you have to sit down, flip from quick access spells through 4 or 5 pages to get to invis. mem cast, get bashed.. mez.

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If your charmed pet is attacking a group mate it is probably because they DoT'd the mob before you charmed. It still feels the DoT even though it is now under your control. About the only thing you can do is constantly issue the /pet back off command or just break the charm since the pet is pretty useless now.

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Also, I'm not quite sure this works but in guk I had a druid get whaled on a few times by my pet because he had a dot on it.
/pet guard here and /pet sit down were bugged:
Quote:
/pet sit down and /pet gaurd here do some really funky things to my charmed pets.

They both do the same thing. I'll use one of the commands and my pet will stand still for a few moments. As soon as I back off a bit though, the pet will start wandering off in a different direction... I have to catch up to it and command it to follow me.
Charm break message seems to have often arrived late and been unreliable/bugged:
Quote:
Another buggy aspect is when a group member casts inviso undead on me to break the charm and I don't get the charm break message until a few seconds after.

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Mixilplix, I have one better. I had a mob break charm, due to "natural" circumstances, and the message finally popped up 3 seconds AFTER my party had killed the loving thing (about a 15-20 second fight).

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Root is in the same slot as charm, so i got the "you may only have one pet at a time" message, slapped myself in the forehead and rooted him. About 30 seconds later, I get the break message, and wait for the pet to come beat on me. But he doesn't, so i hit F1 twice, and sure enough, he still shows up as my pet. Later I got his break message. I'm guessing that even though the second charm didn't go through because I already had a pet, it still got counted, and so i got a break message for it.
So really there was a lot wrong with charm in classic. P99 has too many of these 'bugs' fixed

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Charm wearing off message didn't work?

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ighlight=charm

Classic bugs with Charm

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ighlight=charm

I considered posting on this one, because I experienced several of these "bugs" while leveling up on P99. Charm silently broke because I forgot I had swapped out charm for memblur or pacify. The thing hitting me in Kedge was an add I didn't see. The charm break message was delayed because my chat window was scrolled up a couple lines.

Maybe player dotted pets really did hit players, that seems more plausible than the other claims.

[azxten]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ght=channeling

While we're at it let me add this as well..

So Torven sent me the logic they use on TAKP which I've given to the P99 devs. They took their code from a client decompile so it's as close as I imagine you could get to accuracy. A Trilogy client decompile would be interesting to see, perhaps the logic is in there too (TAKP's client code has a few extra lines to handle channeling AAs, they modify the roll a bit). But looking at it I doubt it changed much.

Based on what I see, channeling is indeed overpowered on p99.

Low level characters should start out with only a 10% chance to channel through hits, which climbs a hill from a minimum roll of 39 to a maximum roll of 370, out of 391, as you progress your levels and channeling skill. It caps at 95% chance to channel.

Additionally you get a level bonus to channel if the spell you are casting is more than 5 levels lower than you are.

Chance to channel is effectively capped at 10% until level 6. Then it scales slowly upwards as a function of level and channeling skill.

My level 3 iksar shaman was about 50/50 to channel through hits on p99 which always felt off. Her chance should be 10%.

A level 10 caster with max channeling and casting a level 8 spell should have a 16% chance to channel.

A level 20 caster with max channeling and casting a 20th spell should have a 31% chance to channel. But casting level 4 gate, they would have a 44% chance to channel due to level bonus.

A level 55 SK with 210 channeling, casting Feign Death (level 30 spell for them) would have a 73% chance to channel (due also to level bonus).

That should give you an idea of how it scales.

At level 1 on P99 you have the channeling success rate of level ~30. This ridiculously successful channeling rate on P99 greatly benefits Enchanter especially at lower levels. Really though this is a whole other can of worms about why P99 is so easy and everyone just stacks up at max level easily zerging raid mobs.

[chowdah555]

I can't speak for earlier expansions because I didn't play an enchanter at first. However, by the time the Planes of power rolled out, charming was common place. I used to do lots of it in the PoTactics pits and it was a common strategy for Rallos Zek to charm his adds against him.

I would agree with what many saying that it wasn't common in groups in Kunark and Velious. Cc and buffs were the expectation. I found it really unusual grouping my first times in blue in KC in my early 50s when I came back to the game and people expected me to automatically pick up a pet.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ght=channeling

While we're at it let me add this as well..



At level 1 on P99 you have the channeling success rate of level ~30. This ridiculously successful channeling rate on P99 greatly benefits Enchanter especially at lower levels. Really though this is a whole other can of worms about why P99 is so easy and everyone just stacks up at max level easily zerging raid mobs.

Yea my lvl 24! Enchanter can channel repeated mezzes through 4+ mobs beating on him. It definitely seems a bit overtuned.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Vizax_Xaziv [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea my lvl 24! Enchanter can channel repeated mezzes through 4+ mobs beating on him. It definitely seems a bit overtuned.

We know channeling is broken but it’s not fixable. Nothing else has any actual evidence. Honestly channeling is probably the main reason people can charm kill way better on P99, charm breaks are much more survivable because of it

[formallydickman]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We know channeling is broken but it’s not fixable. Nothing else has any actual evidence. Honestly channeling is probably the main reason people can charm kill way better on P99, charm breaks are much more survivable because of it

So I’m sure you voted unclassically OP then right? Lmao

[cd288]

Originally Posted by formallydickman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So I’m sure you voted unclassically OP then right? Lmao

I mean what’s the point in crying about an in classic aspect of the class that the P99 devs don’t have the ability to fix?

[Keebz]

I don't think many Enchanter spells worked properly at all until Velious or so. As such, this version of game balance, where enchanter spells work extremely well is not historically accurate.

It's important to remember, the eq emu code and values are not 'classic'. They are largely based off (read: guessed from) later versions of the game. Again with emphasis, this is an _emulated_ server. The status quo is no evidence of accuracy.

Unless the devs have deliberately tried to tune chanter mechanics and values to classic levels, they are wrong. I'd love to see where the devs got their current values/formulas.