Best 4 person all caster/priest group - Page 28

DeathsSilkyMist · #1 08-23-2022, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol safety

Yes. In reality, mistakes happen hehe. We aren't assuming people play perfectly. In a place like Fungi King things can go wrong very quickly. Sorry you haven't played down there apparently.

PlsNoBan · #2 08-23-2022, 12:24 PM

It's honestly painful to read with how dense this guy is

PatChapp · #3 08-23-2022, 01:36 PM

DPS isn't an issue in a group with multiple charm pets, is the most worthless part of this argument.
You want utility. Mage pet to backup tank on breaks os somewhat useful,but a big dumb bear with torpor can do it better.
Neither is optimal, both would work.
Continue flinging poo from your cages

A hasted and torched illis frog will clock near 200dps. Two of them don't need help to kill things

DeathsSilkyMist · #4 08-23-2022, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatChapp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DPS isn't an issue in a group with multiple charm pets, is the most worthless part of this argument.
You want utility. Mage pet to backup tank on breaks os somewhat useful,but a big dumb bear with torpor can do it better.
Neither is optimal, both would work.
Continue flinging poo from your cages

Shaman is much more optimal than a Mage, unless you need CoTH. I agree with the rest of this.

Danth · #5 08-23-2022, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatChapp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DPS isn't an issue in a group with multiple charm pets, is the most worthless part of this argument.

No kidding. Group might be doing 415 DPS with a shaman or 435 with a magician and they can't tell the difference. It's not shaman vs magician, it's group vs group and the magician isn't offering enough of a boost to justify giving up 500+ HP per player let alone everything else the shaman offers. The magician only wins when it offers something specific that the group needs other than damage, be it call of the hero, an easy class for a limited player, whatever.

DeathsSilkyMist · #6 08-23-2022, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No kidding. Group might be doing 415 DPS with a shaman or 435 with a magician and they can't tell the difference. It's not shaman vs magician, it's group vs group and the magician isn't offering enough of a boost to justify giving up 500+ HP per player let alone everything else the shaman offers. The magician only wins when it offers something specific that the group needs other than damage, be it call of the hero, an easy class for a limited player, whatever.

Exactly.

DeathsSilkyMist · #7 08-23-2022, 01:58 PM

Just going to repost the math. If you know basic math, you will understand.

This post shows a level 60 Mage's average DPS. I will take into account damage shield since it was asked for.

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Average pet DPS: (46 + 60 + 56 + 52 + 75 + 57 + 50 + 55 + 52) / 9 = ~56 DPS.

A Mage with max Meditate and Clarity II is regenerating mana at 31 mana per tick. Let's assume this Mage has 3000 Mana to start with.

Max mana per hour: (31 mana x 10 ticks per minute x 60 minutes) + 3000 = 21600.

Shock of Steel costs 275 mana, so that means you can cast it a maximum of 78 times, assuming that is all you do and you meditate every tick.

Best possible player DPS: (825 damage x 78 nukes) / 3600 seconds = ~18 DPS.

For damage shield calculations it varies wildly based on what you are fighting, if you are using slow, etc.

I let a froglok jin wizard drain all of it's mana and then beat on me for a minute:

[Tue Aug 23 07:04:01 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:03 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:03 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:06 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:06 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:13 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:15 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:22 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:22 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:27 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:29 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:31 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:38 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:38 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:43 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:45 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:47 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:47 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:51 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:51 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:54 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:54 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:56 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:58 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:05:01 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.

That is 25 hits. A Mage's DS is 33, so that would be (33 x 25) / 60 = ~14 DPS. Basically an extra nuke.

This means a Mage is going to be doing around 88 DPS with an unfocused level 60 Water pet, with Clarity 2, with Damage Shield, while nuking at the absolute best. The real number is going to be lower, since a Mage is not realistically going to be using the maximum number of nukes per hour. They need to use mana for other things. The DS damage will probably be lower in a group too, since mobs may die faster than a minute, get slowed, etc. My guess is the real number is closer to 80 DPS.

================================================== ================================================== =========

For Shaman DPS:

My Spells
=========
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:29 2022] You begin casting Bane of Nife.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:34 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 150 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:18 2022] Your Bane of Nife spell has worn off.

[Mon Aug 22 08:12:35 2022] You begin casting Envenomed Bolt.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:41 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 110 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:24 2022] Your Envenomed Bolt spell has worn off.

[Mon Aug 22 08:13:19 2022] You begin casting Bane of Nife.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:24 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 150 points of damage.
30 seconds (6 Ticks)

[Mon Aug 22 08:13:25 2022] You begin casting Envenomed Bolt.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:31 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 110 points of damage.
24 seconds (4 Ticks)

Enemy Spells
=========
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:24 2022] Froglok jin shaman feels much better. +270HP
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:32 2022] Froglok jin shaman feels much better. +270HP

Pet DPS
=========
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:21 2022] Xibarer kicks froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:21 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 13 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:23 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:23 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:24 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 19 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:25 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:26 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 24 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:26 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:28 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 13 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:29 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:31 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:31 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 16 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:33 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 34 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:35 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 17 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:42 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 18 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:43 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:44 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:45 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:47 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 39 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:47 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:49 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 24 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:52 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 41 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:53 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:54 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 30 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:54 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 28 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:56 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:58 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 20 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:01 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:03 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:05 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:06 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 30 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:12 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 41 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:12 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:15 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:17 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:19 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:19 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 17 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:21 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:22 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:24 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:26 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:29 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:30 2022] Xibarer kicks froglok jin shaman for 19 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:31 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 19 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:31 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:33 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:33 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:35 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:35 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 19 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:36 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 13 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:36 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:38 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:40 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:40 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 15 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:41 2022] You bash froglok jin shaman for 1 point of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:42 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:44 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 21 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:44 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 24 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:45 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 34 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:47 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:51 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 34 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:51 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:51 2022] Xibarer kicks froglok jin shaman for 22 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:52 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 28 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:52 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 26 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:54 2022] You have slain froglok jin shaman!

6,549 damage over 93 seconds = 70.5 DPS

This is 70.5 DPS to a froglok jin shaman in Sebilis just using a 50% hasted Spirit of the Howler pet and Bane of Nife + Envenomed Bolt. The pet is not max level. He is hitting for 47, so that is a lower end pet (max is 52, each level increases damage by 2). No need to root/rot with this setup in a group, and the DoTs only last 7 or 8 ticks.

A single set of Bane of Nife + Envenomed Bolt costs 745 mana. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjZxMlJSCDc using this video, it looks like you can Torpor recover mana at around 14 mana per second. If you include C2, it is more like 16 mana per second. This means you can recover the 745 mana in 46 seconds. That is easily the length of a fight if Enchanters are fighting 2 mobs with charmed pets. This means the DPS is generally sustainable too.

Zuranthium · #8 08-23-2022, 02:20 PM

Your DoTs are not going to tick full duration the majority of the time. WTF do you not understand.

Manarobe and DPS clickies also exist for Mage. Your numbers are not accurate at all.

DeathsSilkyMist · #9 08-23-2022, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your DoTs are not going to tick full duration the majority of the time. WTF do you not understand.

Manarobe and DPS clickies also exist for Mage. Your numbers are not accurate at all.

What you don't understand is you don't need the DoTs to tick for the full duration. Each tick is 214 damage + 146 damage = 360. 360 / 6 = 60 DPS.

Add in the pet and you are getting somewhere around 10-15 DPS. It would be higher in an Enchanter group since they could give it a better haste. The mob is not dying in 6 seconds, so you just need to apply the DoTs in the beginning of the fight for most of the ticks to get through. Envenomed Bolt and Bane only last for 7 or 8 ticks, so you will get most of them on a mob that dies in 40 seconds.

My DPS calculations did not include Shaman clickies either, so if you want to play that game we can[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Zuranthium · #10 08-23-2022, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What you don't understand is you don't need the DoTs to tick for the full duration. Each tick is 214 damage + 146 damage = 360. 360 / 6 = 60 DPS.

You don't have the mana to cast both of those on every single MOB. Your premise is still incorrect to begin with, as it takes a significant amount of TIME to cast both of those, they aren't just ticking right away. You are truly an idiot.