Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Rimitto]

enchanter enchanter cleric necro is clearly the best grouping.

Why? Necro has Twitch.
Alongside the clerics ability to heal him from lich, and clarity, it basically ensure that the party can handled most if not any situation that ANY caster party would ever be able to handle.

The prime problem of a full caster party is always going to be mana. Necro is the solution to that.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Rimitto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

enchanter enchanter cleric necro is clearly the best grouping.

Why? Necro has Twitch.
Alongside the clerics ability to heal him from lich, and clarity, it basically ensure that the party can handled most if not any situation that ANY caster party would ever be able to handle.

The prime problem of a full caster party is always going to be mana. Necro is the solution to that.

When it comes to mana issues, Shaman/Necro solves mana problems better, due to Torpor + Canninalize, Slow, and Regen. You still get the great combo of being able to heal the Necro via Torpor, and the Necro gets Regen too. The Shaman can take on slow duty for example, so the Enchanters don't have to. This saves the Enchanters mana, and the Shaman has a much larger mana pool to work with than the Cleric. This also allows Enchanters to put another spell on bar if they want, and it allows them to focus on maintaining their pets more.

Shaman/Necro/Enchanter/Enchanter would be great. Have the Necro swap to a pocket Cleric for one of the rare targets that would need to CH the pet like Vaniki. Honestly though you don't really see people selling Vaniki loot rights. It's not a normal group camp.

[Snaggles]

The conversion rate on twitch is absolute garbage. Mod rods are more efficient than Cani4. They can be stacked and juggled until needed.

DS’s on an unhasted mob(s) is tons of DPS.

Necros don’t have a -60 MR debuff that lasts 19 mins.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The conversion rate on twitch is absolute garbage. Mod rods are more efficient than Cani4. They can be stacked and juggled until needed.

DS’s on an unhasted mob(s) is tons of DPS.

Mod rods themselves have a better conversion rate than canni, but remember the Mage is spending 200 mana to make a single rod, and you only get 150 mana back from using one. The Mage is losing a lot of time and mana to make them, juggle them, and move them when the group changes position.

Or you could just save an Enchanter 225 mana per pull by having the Shaman slow instead, and the Shaman can maintain their mana pool with Torpor + Canni. Malo saves the Enchanters mana via less Charm breaks.

If the group really wants DS, the Shaman can make potions. The Shaman will be Torpor Tanking anyway. But slowed mobs don't produce great DS damage anyway.

[Duik]

Bot bot bot bot bot

[Troxx]

As a sidebar discussion, I’ve always wondered if the bard class would be best classified as a caster - not a hybrid. Rangers are half warrior/druid. Paladins are half warrior/cleric. SKs are half war/necro. Bards aren’t really half/half anything. What they DO do best doesn’t involve their weapons. Their weapons aside from having epic for the proc and instrument mods is unrelated to anything substantial they do - and this very unlike any of the other hybrids or the melee characters.

Having said that, they are neither intelligence casters nor wisdom casters. I question how our discussion would be different if bards were part of our consideration in this thread.

Rimitto, you are very much correct. I am inclined to agree. The lack of malo on high level slow-able targets could be painful, but generally in the locations you will find these targets, the available pets to charm have massive hp so you could just push through healing the pet(s) without a slow.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As a sidebar discussion, I’ve always wondered if the bard class would be best classified as a caster - not a hybrid. Rangers are half warrior/druid. Paladins are half warrior/cleric. SKs are half war/necro. Bards aren’t really half/half anything. What they DO do best doesn’t involve their weapons. Their weapons aside from having epic for the proc and instrument mods is unrelated to anything substantial they do - and this very unlike any of the other hybrids or the melee characters.

I think of them as being enchanter/warrior hybrids. They have haste, slow, mez, lull, charm, mana regen. But they’re less like enchanters are than any of the other hybrids are from their “parent” caster classes.

Early on in this thread when bards came up you made a persuasive case that a bard wouldn’t be a good fit in this group, but I’m not gonna try to find it.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Early on in this thread when bards came up you made a persuasive case that a bard wouldn’t be a good fit in this group, but I’m not gonna try to find it.

Sounds like something I would do. Regen is obviously powerful - but probably not needed. Chant dots add dps but not by much. They can pull - but you all ready have 3 classes with pacify. They can provide CC but you already have 2 enchanters.

Ok ok … you convinced me Bcbrown. I find myself agreeing with myself [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think of them as being enchanter/warrior hybrids. They have haste, slow, mez, lull, charm, mana regen. But they’re less like enchanters are than any of the other hybrids are from their “parent” caster classes.

Early on in this thread when bards came up you made a persuasive case that a bard wouldn’t be a good fit in this group, but I’m not gonna try to find it.

A bard would be quite good, just didn’t fit the caster/priest requirement. A good drum OOS debuff is on par with Malo. Mana regen for days making rods and twitches looks sad. Run speed isn’t ports but it’s something (and damn fun!).

Note: Bards lacking pet debuff (sini) may or may not be a big deal. Deferring to the enchs if 19 mins of -60 MR is worth it.

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Another definition that I think could bear fruitful exploration is that shitposting is an artistic form exploring the boundaries of poe's law: any parodic or sarcastic expression of extreme views can be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of those views.

That effort post was a surprise 500+ pages deep. I like this definition of shitposting. I've chuckled at some gems from Jimjam in particular that fit this definition and still come across as friendly and in good faith.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As a sidebar discussion, I’ve always wondered if the bard class would be best classified as a caster - not a hybrid. Rangers are half warrior/druid. Paladins are half warrior/cleric. SKs are half war/necro. Bards aren’t really half/half anything. What they DO do best doesn’t involve their weapons. Their weapons aside from having epic for the proc and instrument mods is unrelated to anything substantial they do - and this very unlike any of the other hybrids or the melee characters.

Having said that, they are neither intelligence casters nor wisdom casters. I question how our discussion would be different if bards were part of our consideration in this thread.

Rimitto, you are very much correct. I am inclined to agree. The lack of malo on high level slow-able targets could be painful, but generally in the locations you will find these targets, the available pets to charm have massive hp so you could just push through healing the pet(s) without a slow.

Bards having unique songs instead of a base-class-caster's spells is a big difference for sure. Despite that I've thought of them as an enchanter/ranger hybrid. Kind of a hybrid-hybrid, taking them one step closer to caster.

But Jimjam made a good post in the best melee/hybrid group thread; "I don’t know about you guys, but I’ve always viewed shaman as more of a melee hybrid than a pure caster so …" And bards are a bit closer to the melee side than shaman, so maybe shaman and bard should both be disqualified here[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can you name a camp this four player group would be doing that can't be Torpor Tanked?

Chardok Overking and sleepers trash.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I see we are still using pocket cleric concept to rationalize bringing an inferior priest (for this party) to the party

Funny how the shaman needs a pocket cleric to make the group viable yet the cleric doesn’t need a pocket shaman.

Truly giggle worthy

Thanks for conceding DSM.

Did the OP specify a timeline? We've only been planning for two years, so I would still call the pocket cleric a major investment. But I think if we drag the prep stage out to 5 years or so we can start calling it a minor cost, relatively speaking.