Shadow knight aggro

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But if you can fit disarm/beg/taunt on a macro you are spamming anyway, you are getting potential extra hate literally for free. Why not use it?

I can answer this: Because the benefit gained from more aggro generation is not unlimited. Once you're already holding aggro, any additional threat, be it +1, or +1000, is wasted. Hence spamming those abilities is typically of no value on a knight who's holding aggro anyway. That's more of a warrior tactic when they're scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for any extra threat they can find.

In the specific case of beg you do actually get some "harm" by using it unnecessarily: It adds hate when it fails, so you want to keep your skill as low as possible to maximize fail rate. Using it all the time, hence skilling it up faster, is detrimental. Disarm and Taunt have no such long-term downside.

I don't like macroing abilities together because the macro button doesn't stay "greyed out" when on cooldown the same way, say, Bash does just by itself. I do use bash "strategically" when battling spellcasters, as any knight should, so I like having the visual reference. That's just personal preference, of course, and other folks can and do use other setups and do fine.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Every single thread you join

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=210
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...95&postcount=6
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...3&postcount=94
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=152
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=233
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...3&postcount=10

etc.

You are simply projecting your clear trolling behavior on to me.

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can answer this: Because the benefit gained from more aggro generation is not unlimited. Once you're already holding aggro, any additional threat, be it +1, or +1000, is wasted. Hence spamming those abilities is typically of no value on a knight who's holding aggro anyway. That's more of a warrior tactic when they're scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for any extra threat they can find.

Building an agro buffer means that you are more likely to hold agro. If you have +500 over the rogue, the mob is less likely to flip. Adding to the buffer is always better, since you can't see the numbers in the agro list. You have no idea if you are +1 or +500. For all you know the +1 hate from taunt every 6 seconds is the only thing keeping you at +7 over the rogue.

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In the specific case of beg you do actually get some "harm" by using it unnecessarily: It adds hate when it fails, so you want to keep your skill as low as possible to maximize fail rate. Using it all the time, hence skilling it up faster, is detrimental. Disarm and Taunt have no such long-term downside.

I agree that leveling up beg makes it worse. But if you never use it then you are getting nothing out of it anyway. I am sure a lot of people simply don't use it at all. Which is fine of course, I am not saying you need to use it. But I don't think having a fear of skilling up beg is a good reason to not use it. You just end up never pressing it, and getting nothing out of it.

[Danth]

I sure as heck do normally have a feel for when I have a good threat lead or not. I've also been doing the tank job a long flippin' time, and that's something that only comes with the experience of mastery at a job. Maybe some other players might not have the same instinct for the job if they haven't been doing it as long. So, yeah, if you're new to the job and uncertain of yourself, or playing in such a way that you're sometimes shaky on aggro, link those abilities if you like. If you don't need to, then don't do it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I sure as heck do normally have a feel for when I have a good threat lead or not. I've also been doing the tank job a long flippin' time, and that's something that only comes with the experience of mastery at a job. Maybe some other players might not have the same instinct for the job if they haven't been doing it as long. So, yeah, if you're new to the job and uncertain of yourself, or playing in such a way that you're sometimes shaky on aggro, link those abilities if you like. If you don't need to, then don't do it.

I have a good feel for it too. I've also tanked for years. Nor am I suggesting you do not have a good feel.

My point is simple: More agro is better, as it decreases the chance of a flip. There is no downside to adding more agro, only upsides. Unless of course you don't want agro hehe.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But you do still agree that the approach for which you advocate is less optimal than saving taunt to use strategicly, if you're trying to minimize the frequency of losing aggro and not flipping it right back with a successful taunt, right?

I don't know why you keep asking. You should read the thread, I have answered this question multiple times. https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=276 is the latest answer, which was last page.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know why you keep asking. You should read the thread, I have answered this question multiple times. https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=276 is the latest answer, which was last page.

I want you to either admit it is less optimal, or use some math to prove it is more optimal.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I want you to either admit it is less optimal, or use some math to prove it is more optimal.

Thank you for admitting that is what you are fishing for.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=276

That has the answer you are looking for.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That has the answer you are looking for.

No where in that post do you claim that the approach for which you advocate is optimal over strategic taunting. Thank you for conceding that it is non-optimal behavior.

[Danth]

I do not agree it reduces chance of a flip. If I want aggro, chance of a flip is already zero--can't go below zero. I understand where you're coming from in theory, but this is a case where theory and real practice are not precisely the same.

I get a feeling that you and I probably play our characters a little differently and I probably "go at it harder" than you do as a matter of habit. At least that's the impression I get re-reading some of my own posts, and yours. Neither is right, nor wrong--just, perhaps, an insight into our relative differences in opinion. Likewise, we know from past interaction that you, to some extent, enjoy eeking out every advantage whether its needed or not just for the fun of doing so, whereas I'm more likely to stop caring at those last few percent when we're hitting diminishing returns territory.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Building an agro buffer means that you are more likely to hold agro. If you have +500 over the rogue, the mob is less likely to flip. Adding to the buffer is always better, since you can't see the numbers in the agro list. You have no idea if you are +1 or +500. For all you know the +1 hate from taunt every 6 seconds is the only thing keeping you at +7 over the rogue.

But you do still agree that the approach for which you advocate is less optimal than saving taunt to use strategicly, if you're trying to minimize the frequency of losing aggro and not flipping it right back with a successful taunt, right?

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't like macroing abilities together because the macro button doesn't stay "greyed out" when on cooldown the same way, say, Bash does just by itself. I do use bash "strategically" when battling spellcasters, as any knight should, so I like having the visual reference. That's just personal preference, of course, and other folks can and do use other setups and do fine.

You can look at the abilities window or another hotkey for reference if the button is greyed out, but yeah I get that.