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  #1  
Old 05-15-2025, 01:49 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is online now
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Loramin:

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Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
And when I make a mistake I acknowledge it.
Loramin refusing to acknowledge his mistake literally in the next post with an insult:

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Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
So instead, I'll respond with a quote from the only human being to support your position on the Goblin Ring ... in this entire 20-page thread:
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  #2  
Old 05-15-2025, 02:01 PM
bcbrown bcbrown is online now
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Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
You've misread at least three things so far:
1. You thought mana saving from Goblin Ring was "invis mana".
The way I read the exchange it was DSM who misread Loramin.


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Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Main benefit to goblin ring is the spell slot and mana it saves
Wow, I haven't seen a "DSM says something completely wrong, with total confidence" hot take in a while [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The main benefit of the ring has nothing to do with the spell slot or saving invis mana!
DSM says one of the main benefits is the mana it saves [on casting invis]. Loramin critiques that and says "saving invis mana" as a shorthand for "saving mana on casting invis". He's not making up some new "invis mana" concept.
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  #3  
Old 05-15-2025, 02:08 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is online now
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Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The way I read the exchange it was DSM who misread Loramin.

DSM says one of the main benefits is the mana it saves [on casting invis]. Loramin critiques that and says "saving invis mana" as a shorthand for "saving mana on casting invis". He's not making up some new "invis mana" concept.
This makes no sense. To his credit, Loramin admitted he read my post wrong:

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Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Maybe I misread you on the mana thing
I am sorry your gotcha post failed again. Please stop doing this, it doesn't help OP, make you look good, or make me look bad.

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The ring's power is not about saving invis mana, it's about saving mana on the (far more expensive) nukes you have to cast at the end of the fight
For context, he specified the mana saving wasn't for "invis mana", it was for nukes. Mana is mana, saving mana means you have more mana for any spell you want. I never claimed that the mana saved was exculsively used for invis.
Last edited by DeathsSilkyMist; 05-15-2025 at 02:16 PM..
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  #4  
Old 05-15-2025, 02:18 PM
bcbrown bcbrown is online now
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Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
For context, he specified the mana saving wasn't for "invis mana", it was for nukes. Mana is mana, saving mana means you have more mana for any spell you want. I never claimed that the mana was exculsively used for invis.
The reason the ring saves mana is because you don't have to use as much mana on nukes/dots after breaking charm because you can confidently break charm when mobs are closer to death. The mana savings from the free clicky are almost irrelevant and completely lost in the noise of snares, root breaks, charm breaks, and nukes/dots.

Everyone else accepts this but you deny that the goblin ring allows you to break charm at lower health on average while minimizing losing 50%/100% due to not getting an IvA off on time.
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  #5  
Old 05-15-2025, 02:31 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is online now
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Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The reason the ring saves mana is because you don't have to use as much mana on nukes/dots after breaking charm because you can confidently break charm when mobs are closer to death. The mana savings from the free clicky are almost irrelevant and completely lost in the noise of snares, root breaks, charm breaks, and nukes/dots.

Everyone else accepts this but you deny that the goblin ring allows you to break charm at lower health on average while minimizing losing 50%/100% due to not getting an IvA off on time.
You clearly don't understand clickies or flowing thought items, as I said earlier.

People pay 60k for Choker of the Wretched for 1 mana every 6 seconds. If you click Ring even 10 times per hour, that is 0.5 mana every 6 seconds. People will gladly pay 5k for an item that is half as powerful as a 60k item. It can be more powerful too if you click it more often. The stats are not what sells Choker. It's the FT1. You can get a 6+ neck for 5k, and the stats are basically the same, but with all resists too.

You still have no evidence to suggest the riskier playstyle of breaking later saves mana in the long run. If you lose a mob, you'll waste a lot of time and mana. I can predict charm breaks just fine without Goblin Ring, and you can save the same mana with free damage clickies at less risk.
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  #6  
Old 05-15-2025, 02:42 PM
bcbrown bcbrown is online now
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Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
You clearly don't understand clickies or flowing thought items, as I said earlier.

People pay 60k for Choker of the Wretched for 1 mana every 6 seconds. If you click Ring even 10 times per hour, that is 0.5 mana every 6 seconds. People will gladly pay 5k for an item that is half as powerful as a 60k item. It can be more powerful too if you click it more often. The stats are not what sells Choker. It's the FT1. You can get a 6+ neck for 5k, and the stats are basically the same, but with all resists too.

You still have no evidence to suggest the riskier playstyle of breaking later saves mana in the long run. If you lose a mob, you'll waste a lot of time and mana. I can predict charm breaks just fine without Goblin Ring, and you can save the same mana with free damage clickies at less risk.
When you say the goblin ring saves mana, exactly what are you saying? Are you talking about the mana savings from not having to cast the 30 mana IVA? Do you believe there any other mana savings from using a gobling ring?
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  #7  
Old 05-15-2025, 02:19 PM
loramin loramin is offline
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Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The way I read the exchange it was DSM who misread Loramin
My mistake was thinking that he meant "the mana saved by not having to cast invis", but DSM didn't say that: he just said "mana it saves":

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Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Main benefit to goblin ring is the spell slot and mana it saves, so it depends on your class as to how much you end up enjoying it. I love goblin ring on my Enchanter, as I always have too many spells and not enough spell slots. It's a pain to swap spells mid battle. I don't care too much about the instant cast. Will probably swap it with a Ring of Stealthy Travel evenrually so I don't need to mem invis, and I can still break charms pretty quick.
Now, his "I don't care too much about the instant cast" (and similar sentiments throughout this thread) suggest that he doesn't really grok how the ring's instant cast invis saves non-invis mana ...

... but still, I made an assumption, he corrected me, and then I admitted as much.
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  #8  
Old 05-15-2025, 02:59 PM
Jimjam Jimjam is online now
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Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The way I read the exchange it was DSM who misread Loramin.




DSM says one of the main benefits is the mana it saves [on casting invis]. Loramin critiques that and says "saving invis mana" as a shorthand for "saving mana on casting invis". He's not making up some new "invis mana" concept.
"invis mana" is when the healer claims to be oom, but you know they still hiding a heal up their sleeve.
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  #9  
Old 05-15-2025, 03:41 PM
bcbrown bcbrown is online now
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Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
"invis mana" is when the healer claims to be oom, but you know they still hiding a heal up their sleeve.
That's just responsible clericking!
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  #10  
Old 05-15-2025, 06:00 PM
Jimjam Jimjam is online now
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Just spent ages trying to dig up an account with a ggr. Found one eventually!

After a really quick test I found that with the GGR if you break too early you have the time to recharm and then rebreak. This isn't something you can really do with just spell invis.

I also found the ring let me play much more reflexively to react to unexpected circumstances which perhaps I would have been unable to plan for if using an invis spell (on my charmers without ggr I do tend to carry a few cloudy pots as an emergency break, but that is spending 10pp on fixing a single fight).
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